An interesting Hashkafic concept

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  • #595923

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    About a week ago, I pointed out how a person’s Bechira can override the Hashgacha that Hashem sends you. This is obvious from the famous moshel of a man that is drowning and he is sent a boat, etc to save him, and he has Bitachon. After he dies, he asks Hashem what happened, and Hashem says “I sent you a boat, etc. but you chose not to take the help”.

    What is lesser known is that a “Makas Medina” i.e. Global action, can override Hashgacha Pratis. This is from the Medresh Raba in the beginning of Megilas Esther, which says regarding the pasuk in the Tochacha:

    ??????? ????????, ????????? ???? ????????; ??????????? ??????? ????????, ????? ???????? ???????????

    is refering to someone who does not store food for a year.

    ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ????

    ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ??? ????

    ????. ????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?????. ???

    ??????? ????? ?? ???? ????

    ? ? ? ? ?

    The Anaf Yosef there on the daf asks what happened to Bitachon, why should someone save for the future? Doesn’t it say “someone who says “what will be tomorrow” is Meketanai Emunah”? He answers that of course having Bitachon in Hashem helps, but that is only in a normal situation. In a situation where the entire world gets hit, one must be prepared.

    He also gives a second, more interesting answer. He says Bitachon is only for someone who doesn’t have, then he should not worry and have Bitachon. For someone who does have, he has no right to rely on Bitachon, and must prepare.

    #942573

    The first ???? sounds similar to the idea in .?”? ?:

    ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???????

    #942574

    s2021
    Member

    I dont know about anyone else, but thinking about Bechirah and Hashgachah could drive me insane. I think 4 me its good 2 just go with the flow, not overthink, and work on trusting simply..

    #942575

    The Sifsei Chaim has a two volume set on Emunah and Bitachon that covers a lot of inyanim including bechirah and hashgacha if you ever want to check it out.

    #942576

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Since the thread is about hashgacha elyona, maybe I can get away with hijacking it with the following question:

    We see some opinions that the world is governed by hashgacha klalis in the gemara, and then the geonim. AFAIK the last rishon to mention hashgacha klalis is RaMBaM in hilchos teshuva. In our own time hashgacha pratis is accepted by almost all Orthodox Jews and anyone who believes otherwise is seen as lacking emuna.

    How did the shift occur? Was someone oker the shita thorugh svara? If so, where?

    Was it simply a matter of majority “holding of” hashgacha pratis? If so, who was involved in the machlokes?

    Was it something along the lines of chicken with milk in the city of R’ Yosi?

    If anyone knows, I’m very curious. As an aside, the concept of hashgacha klalis removes many of the questions about bechira.

    #942577

    Why are they soser each other that there needs to be a machlokes? The Sifsei Chaim discusses both of them as mitziyus.

    #942578

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    The first ???? sounds similar to the idea in .?”? ?:

    ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???????

    I was also thinking that, at first. But this is much more general, that Hashgacha Pratis can be overridden by “Hashgacha Klalis”, nothing to do with a Mashchis or even anything bad.

    This is (put simplisticly) during the dot com boom, you got even if you shouldn’t have, and during the bust, you might not get even if you should have.

    #942579

    LanderTalmid
    Participant

    The Ramchal in Derech Hashem says clearly that for the rest of the world there is a concept of Hashgachah Klalis but for people Hashem deals with them through Hashgachah Pratis.

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