An interesting Shabbos guest, and thoughts on Rosh Hashanah

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  • #610268
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    This past Shabbos, I had an interesting guest for one of the meals – an Israeli girl who is doing a shlichus in the US for the summer. We asked her what she does in Israel, and she told me she is in the army. Her job is training nachal chareidi.

    My first thought was, “Wow, that must be an interesting job!” She confirmed that yes, it is very interesting, and it definitely has its moments. I expressed my surprise that she’s allowed to teach them – I thought they’d only have men teaching/ She said she doesn’t teach them as a class usually, she deals with officers, and also designs the curriculum. She does sometimes speak with individual soldiers when they have an issue that needs to be dealt with.

    She told me the #1 issue she’s asked about is help in dealing with family. Many soldiers told her that their parents disown them when they join the army. The children feel that if they’re not going to be learning, they should serve the country, and Nachal Chareidi is the way they want to do so. When their parents heard, they were kicked out of the house. Their parents won’t speak to them, and told their siblings not to speak with them either. The soldiers come to ask advice from those on top in the group, which includes her. And the worst part? “I don’t know what to advise them,” she told me. “How can you explain a parent disowning their child?”

    I was thinking about it some more over the past couple of days. I’ve had my share of things I did wrong. Some of them were pretty bad, and my parents definitely didn’t approve. Yet they never failed to show their love for me. In a few weeks, we’re going to say to Hashem, “Im k’vonim, rachameinu k’rachem av al banim.” When you have a parent who kicks their child out of the house for doing something they don’t like, is this something to strive for?

    We ask Hashem, “Shivti b’vais Hashem kol y’mei chayai”, let us dwell in the house of Hashem all the days of our lives. When we do things Hashem doesn’t approve of, we’d like Hashem to overlook our sins and allow us in His house. But when a parent won’t allow their own child in, and then asks Hashem to treat him as his own child, does that mean Hashem will kick him out as well?

    I’m not saying that parents should accept what their kids do as ok. But a parent is supposed to have unconditional love for their child, just as Hashem has unconditional love for the Jewish nation. Just as we want Hashem to overlook our shortcomings and show his love, we need to do the same to our children. If we don’t, what are we davening for?

    #969521
    MCP
    Member

    Like.

    #969522
    takahmamash
    Participant

    Double like.

    #969523
    SaysMe
    Member

    thank you for phrasing it so well

    #969524
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    ridiculous!

    #969525
    notsuchalamdan16
    Participant

    while i agree with your point, i don’t think the problem is the parents. its the people who tell the parents that joining the army is worthy of disowning. as unconditional as that love is and should be there are times when it should be overridden i don’t believe this is one of them

    #969528
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    notsuchalamdan16: That may be true, but it doesn’t change the message.

    #969529
    Working on it
    Participant

    DaMoshe – Well said

    notsuchalamdan16 – As much as I agree with you about the leadership having a hand in this, there also has to be some sense of personal responsibility. As a parent, I can’t imagine disowning one of my children. Certainly not just because my rabbi tells me to do it.

    #969530
    yehudayona
    Participant

    Working: Obviously, you are not a member of a group that follows whatever their leader tells them to do. I have it on good authority that the leader of a well-known group has ruled that children with major disabilities should be given up. His followers do what they’re told.

    #969531
    oomis
    Participant

    The only reason I can think of that a parent would disown a child if if that child is a true ben sorer umoreh. Joining the nachal chareidi does not fit that category. Shame on the parents, and shame on anyone in a position of leadership who would tell a parent to give up a disabled child as a matter of course. I am not mekabeles that.

    #969532
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Rav Shteinman was all for the military option of some Bochurim. (The Israeli media and loud politicians chose to ignore this and the fact that the numbers of Chareidim joining was growing, and utilized Haya Tzareha Larosh to rise in power.) Why don’t these soldiers having family trouble contact such Gedolim, instead of like-minded people that have complete opposite views of the parents in question?

    It is very a narrow minded way of dealing with things. If you know that someone sees things very different than you, then you should know that you can’t ‘reach out’ to them.

    #969533
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Is like a cult or whatever, it twists them into thinking its right. Truly, ever disowning a child is wrong unless the parent-child relashenship is harmful in some way, then, even then, tge children should not be disowned, they should try to make thing better and if its not possible, than stop talking or avoid each other. I read a story about how a single mother was too dependant on one of her kids and all the rabanim and doctors told her the best thing would be to cut off contact for 10 YEARS! It was really sad, the story said so far 7 years have passed and she is still waiting out the rest.

    Children even as they are adults need utmost love no matter what. Even if they go OTD or want to serve their country.

    #969534
    MDG
    Participant

    “I have it on good authority that the leader of a well-known group has ruled that children with major disabilities should be given up.”

    They were doing that 80 years ago in a part of Europe. That part of Europe wanted a perfect society, so they put the disabled in facilities that took care of them for the rest of their (short) lives. They were also given nice shower rooms. That was in Germany. The Nazis Y”Sh put the poison gas in the showers. These initial gas chambers were the prototype for the bigger and more efficient mass extermination centers.

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