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THE FOLLOWING WAS RECEIVED VIA EMAIL TO YWN – IT HAS NOT BEEN EDITED IN ANY WAY.
i am quite certain that my experiences are not unique, and that my reactions to them are also not unique. we all lead busy lives. we are pulled in many directions, have countless responsibilities to family, spouses, children, parents, jobs, etc. And then, as we are juggling our responsibilities, the phone rings. we rush to answer- i , personally, have an elderly mother with multiple health problems- i answer every call. so do many others. and who is the caller? a recording , be it from a yeshiva, a mossad, a sale from a heimishe business, a reminder to attend a function – the list goes on and on. these calls come at all hours, disturb dinner, homework- disturb life. they are unsolicited- and they call both my phone numbers. i believe they constitute onoas devorim, and can only wish they would stop.i dont know what rationale these people use to justify the mass calling and intrusion of countless people.
I totally agree with this. But what I find even more annoying, are the live telemarketers. You can’t just hang up the phone on them, because they keep nagging you to pledge a donation. And you gotta be ultra polite because it might be someone you know.
The Mossad?
Non-profit mosdos making fundraising calls is legal both according to secular law and Jewish law.
With a live telemarketer you can politely explain that you don’t talk to telemarketers and hang up.
Joseph, there’s no specific halachah against walking over to someone and tickling them either.
Or against sockpuppeting, but it’s still very annoying.
nomorobo.com helps with some.
Some of you may not believe this, but in real life, I’m a pretty nice guy. So it wasn’t easy, but I trained myself to simply say, “Sorry, but now is not a good time” and hang up even while the telemarketer starts to make his/her pitch.
If the issue is with the time of day the calls are being received, and not opposition to receiving the calls altogether, it is a legitimate discussion. But other than not making the calls at an unreasonably late hour, how is the fundraiser supposed to know when you are eating supper?
Raising tzedaka is a very Jewish midda.
I expected this thread to be about how to annoy telemarketers,
and whether it’s allowed if they’re Jewish.
Thank Hashem for caller ID. The worst are the ones who scream for several minutes that there are only two hours to buy a ticket. The second worst are the ones who lie and say you’ve donated before. With caller ID, I don’t have to deal with it anymore
I’m not sure why the OP feels compelled to answer every call even if he has an elderly mother with many health problems. It’s highly unlikely that someone calling about his mother will have “Unavailable” as their caller ID.
My complaint about some of the allegedly frum robocallers is that they’re breaking the law by not disconnecting when I hang up on them. If I pick up the phone again after hanging up, they’re droning on about the sale I don’t care about or the Chinese auction that I’m not interested in. G-d forbid that I should actually need the phone for an emergency.
Recently I was at my parents, who live in a very frum city. The house phone rings and my mother says, “Here, listen to what we have to put up with” and answers on speaker. It was a robo call in Yiddish about some sweepstakes or other. She barely even glanced at the caller ID. Apparently, every call that comes in that they don’t recognize the number is a teletzedakaer.
I told my father that what they’re doing is illegal and can be reported. He said that there’s a possible maasrus shaaloh so he didn’t want to. I disagree, as there’s no mesirah if the person is actively committing a crime, there’s no shaaloh of medinas ra, and people are being bothered by it.
Lesschumras
I was thinking the same thing
The worst are Chinese auctions they get so annoying!
Coffee Addict.
The term Chinese auction is a very disgusting and derogatory term and should never be used. They are not auctioning off Chinese people as they did with blacks in pre-Civil War America.
I have a Chinese daughter, my wife and I adopted her in China 18 years ago at a time when due to government one child per family policy, newborn girls were being killed.
Any charity or organization that advertises a Chinese Auction will never get one cent from me, and I will publicly urge a boycott of the charity/organization until the term is banned and proper apologies made.
We know dozens of other Jewish families that adopted infant girls in China and we are all offended by this racist term.
BTW, we also have a white, American born adopted daughter who is 30. We did not start to adopt until we had 3 natural birth children, then for medical reasons could have no more.
Y123: It is legal for non-profit/religious organizations to make cold calls to numbers on the dnc list.
CT lawyer – I have never in my life heard anything about chinese auctions to indicate it is derogatory. I assumed this was a discreet way to have an auction, more typical of chinese culture than ours. And now that I have googled it, i have found that others echo that sentiment. No evidence anywhere of this being derogatory. Not even sure what it could mean if it was.
Joseph, you’re correct that charities (and politicians and pollsters) are exempt from the DNC list. But I’ve had robocalls from furniture stores, which are clearly illegal. And not disconnecting when hung up on is also illegal.
CTLawyer, do you on principle not play Chinese Checkers or eat French Fries?
Japanese and Dutch auctions are not considered offensive.
Yehudayona, Joseph was responding to Yserbius123′ “heter” to masser on a tzeddakah telemarketer.
Gottit:
I certainly had no problems hanging up on telemarketers. And we kept a list of telemarketer numbers, so if they popped up on the caller-id, we’d just let the phone ring.
Again, let me repeat what I wrote once before. If you get a call and suspect it’s a telemarketer etc. keep quiet, and wait for the other party to speak first. The way these robot-calling system work is that a machine dials your number, and if it detects a live human voice (as opposed to an answering machine), it will connect to a live “operator” on their end. Keeping quiet on your end will avoid that. Try it out. The line usually goes blank after ten seconds.
That’s hard to do with a full family going through supper, pj’s, and bed.
Yes, that would be time consuming. My method is quicker.
My beef is the organizations that sells donors names. I get bombarded by them. Like, I gave you a donation and did you a favor, now you sell my name?? And now i have to deal with shredding the papers that contain my address? oh and the ones that so “thoughtfully” include shamimos items!! Seriouisly, like I need more shamimos items to get rid of?? I did not ask to receive your “gift”. No I do not need a Birchas Chanukah, or Licht Bentching.
This thread is a bit over the top.
What is the origin of “chinese auction” anyway? Wikipedia doesn’t know. I doubt the origin is auctioning off african americans in the south, since then it would be called an african american auction. Also, people were auctioned as slaves throughout history–not just in the American south, so they may as well be called a paris auction, or an algerian auction, or, hey, a chinese auction.
I think frum chinese auctions are racist because the prizes are never things that are only used in discrete racial markets except frum markets. For example, have you ever seen an Indian product that they only use in India being auctioned at a frum chinese auction? Racists. That is why I will never give a cent to any chinese auction, except the one that I like to go to because my friends go and there’s separate seating so I get credit for a date but sit with my friends.
Also, if you call me during dinner, on my cell phone, I will either (a) not answer, or (b) answer. Those are the only two choices, and neither one leads to a contribution, except the chances are slightly higher if I answer.
Also, if you call me during dinner to tell me about your dinner, I only assume that someone else will call me during YOUR dinner, and how will I enjoy it anyway?
Also, once I went to a chinese auction, that served chinese food. But I’ve been told that in china they don’t eat what we call chinese food. They eat real chinese food (and mistama call it american food). So this was very confusing, and indicated to me that in china they also don’t have chinese auctions. They instead have regular auctions where you bid on stuff and the highest bidder wins and gives it to the rav, and they call it simchas torah auctions.
Coffee…read this 2002 post from wordoriginsorg…….it brings home the point I made:
Joseph, it also answers your question about checkers
CONFUSED ABOUT CHINESE AUCTION #21 [-]
Mar 19 02 10:50 AM
My children came home last night with an advertisement for a Chinese Auction that was going to be held at one of the local elementary schools. We are Chinese Americans.
My 10 yr old son asked me if only Chinese people were allowed to go. I told him “no”. He then asked me what an auction was. I explained. He then asked me if they were planning to sell Chinese people.
When I asked the schools about the term “Chinese Auction”, I was told that this is what it has always been called. (Not that this is justification…..). I then asked the obvious question, “WHY?” I was told then that the Chinese, a long time ago, were considered “tricky” and “deceptive” and that that was why the term “Tricky Tray” was synonymous for “Chinese auction”. I went from curious to offended very quickly.
It seems to me that things should be named appropriately. I am not offended by “Chinese Food” or “Chinese Checkers” because those are appropriate names and accurately describe these things. I am offended by “Chinese Auction” because there is absolutely nothing Chinese about it. Call it a “Basket Raffle” or “Surprise Raffle” or even “Tricky Tray”. But for goodness sakes, let’s not call it “Chinese Auction” because that is not what it is.
Ctlawyer
Wiki Chinese auction it’s not offensive
How dare you call yourself CT lawyer. . I have had many CT scans and very serious conditions had to be ruled out. And there are millions of other people who also were in similar situations. It’s life and death and you use those letters for some internet club!
I find it disgusting and highly offensive. And since I have had a very personal connection to CTs I feel thoroughly justified in taking said offense. I have every right to and you better feel bad about it. And don’t give me any of your Connecticut stuff.
That REALLY REALLY felt good. Now I understand the deluge of political correctness and the victim mentality. It’s just plain FUN! Almost as good as revenge.
CT has a point and its not funny, however most of us (including me) do not get that Chinese auction might be offensive. wherever that term came from sort of lost its meaning.
I was once speaking to someone on the phone and she says to me that I should “Jew Down the Price”. The person had no Idea I was jewish and didnt even think that was offensive. I do sales and normally you are supposed to be composed over the phone (They called me , not a cold me from me) and I told them how offensive it was to say “Jew down the price”
What a hypocrite! How dare you come on and give sanctimonious mussar about the innocuous computerized tomography, using the offensive screen name you do.
Do you know what horrors your screen name awakens in me? Can you imagine the torture I went through in a grade between fourth and sixth, with a rebbe whose last name started with a letter somewhere between K and M? Are you so callous and insensitive to use that offensive screen name, and so unembarrassingly falsely pious as to even use it in a post innocently written by a member of that most noble proffesion, legal council?
For shame (how I shudder to even think it), 5L.
ZD, I disagree with that comparison. The term “Chinese Auction” has no obvious offensive meaning, while the term “Jew down the price” does.
Are you kidding!
Look at yourself!
Do you have any idea how many millions of people have experienced untold severe anxiety and even loss of irreplaceable data by the “blue screen of death”? DOS Yochid.
DY: Eh. I don’t think “Jew” is any more offensive than “gyp/jip”, which I hear people say all the time.
Agree with DY, just hang up.
DY: Eh. I don’t think “Jew” is any more offensive than “gyp/jip”, which I hear people say all the time.
I don’t say gyp. It’s highly offensive.
5L {shudder}, maskim. What do you suggest I change it to?
Sam, if you don’t want to be offended, I have no problem. Its no mitzvah to be easily offended. I just think that even if someone finds that particular use of “Jew” to be offensive, they shouldn’t find “Chinese Auction” offensive.
I agree that Jewish Israeli Princess is offensive.
Gyp comes from Gypsy because people thought the gypsies would trick them out of their money (Gyp them).
Chinese auction is not offensive to us because we didnt know where the term came from
Squaw Valley probably isnt offensive to most of us either, even though Squaw is an offensive term for female Native american
well none of those are as offensive as being called an oveid a”z. just saying
DY. I don’t know. I can’t think of anything clever to say.
Apple Yochid or Mac Yochid isn’t funny.
But maybe the mods can change MY name to sixem or forkay.
But that’s not funny either.
Popaesque:
I never say gyp, I only say jip
well none of those are as offensive as being called an oveid a”z.
Being called a kidnapper is also highly offensive. But if someone is a kidnapper or oveid a”z, calling a spade a spade is only the truth.
so than the bottom line is somewhere between “better to be right than a mentch” and “all bad behaviors can be rationalized”
I have never heard anyone take offense at “guinea pig”.
Most of the organizations use commissioned sales people to call for money and I have a problem with that.
Most of the organizations use commissioned sales people to call for money and I have a problem with that.
Why?
They only do it because you’re too cheap to donate money otherwise.
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