Another Reason Not to Vote Democrat

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  • #1888614
    1
    Participant

    Obama endorsed the grandson of onevof the terrorists involved in the Munich massacre. Obama endorses terrorists. Democrats support terrorists.

    #1888649
    charliehall
    Participant

    The grandfather was indeed a terrorist. The grandson is not. In fact, the grandson, Ammar Campa-Najjar, is a Christian (the terrorist grandfather was Muslim), and the grandson had denounced his father’s actions.

    The following quote is from Campa-Naijar’s campaign web site:

    “America must always be protected, its values and citizens defended. We must uphold human rights globally and remain a vigilant force against terrorism. To do this we must enable and ensure our military is strong, resilient, properly funded and fully supported.

    I believe that our military should prioritize the use of force whenever our national security is at stake. The world has become increasingly dangerous and complex. We should use all the tools of American power, beginning with diplomacy and economic development, to confront global threats and always ensure war is the last resort.”

    This is Campa-Naijar’s second try for this congressional seat. In 2018, he unfortunately lost to a Republican crook, Duncan Hunter, who has been sentenced to 11 months in prison for illegally using campaign funds to finance affairs with five different women. (I am not making this up.) The start of his prison term has been delayed because of coronavirus.

    Grandsons often fail to follow their evil ancestors. For example, Henry Ford was one of the worst anti-Semites in American history but his grandsons became great supporters of the Jewish community, contributing to Jewish charities and sponsoring “Schindler’s List” on television.

    #1888826
    1
    Participant

    Would you vote for Hitlers grandson?

    #1888841
    The little I know
    Participant

    I do understand that we cannot punish the descendants of the wicked for the evils of history. But that doesn’t explain Obama. It is said that there was never a terrorist he failed to support and fund. Any exaggeration involved in that statement is microscopic. We now have several members of Congress who subscribe to the same values. So when any of these resho’im endorses a candidate, it tells me that there is something sinister here, and that the votes should be directed elsewhere.

    #1888865
    1
    Participant

    The democrats couldn’t pick someone who isn’t associated with a terrorist for that seat? He’s associated whether he gives a speech or not. The democrat party of even bill clinton wouldn’t run him.

    #1888870
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    This might cause 1 not to vote for Obama (if he was running for office) because he endorse this person. The Democratoc Party as a whole did not make this endorsement and it is faulty logic to refuse to vote for someone who did not endorse because Obama did.
    1 just hates Dems

    #1888887
    jackk
    Participant

    Osama Bin Laden would like to have a word with “the little I know”. The hundreds of terrorists killed by drone strikes are also waiting in line.

    They are all suffering in Gehinnom . It might be hard to hear them through the screams of pain.

    #1888885
    1
    Participant

    Obama is one of the most powerful voices in the democrat party. Democrats are trending against jews. Maybe in CTLs suburb, the rich dems pat each other on the back, but the party is shifting to socialism and anti-israel platforms.

    #1888882
    The little I know
    Participant

    CTL:

    Sad for all, but Obama has become a spokesperson for the DNC. I know he’s an ex-president, but he isn’t better as an ex- than he was while in office. One would hope that the primary spokesperson for the party should be the nominee, but he can’t handle that responsibility. He’s brain dead, and cannot finish a coherent sentence, even with prompting. Thus, Obama’s utterances become the lyrics for the party song. And he has always managed to chum up to terror and to fund it if possible. Must we waste space here listing his many contributions?

    #1888904
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    CT, Speaker Pelosi just endorsed Rep Omar,despite not only past antisemitic comments but borderline antisemitic ads in current race.

    #1888918
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    I’m currently registered Dem and have yet to receive the email that says that xPresident Obama is the official spokesman for the Democratic party. As someone who has voted for Republicans I’m still on their current mailing list and have yet to receive any info that indicates our current president is the official spokesperson for the Republican party. See how that works? Anyone on the internet can claim that someone is the official spokesperson for any party, that doesn’t make it real.

    #1888934
    1
    Participant

    Amil you should know that Obama is working very hard behind the scenes to help the party, to salvage his legacy.

    #1889020
    KGN
    Participant

    Obama is evil and masks it with a nice personality.

    #1889026
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Pelosi just endorsed Rep Omar”

    Trump endorsed Paul Nehlen, an actual Nazi, in a congressional primary in 2016.

    I look forward to all those who consider endorsements to be disqualifying to be endorsing Joe Biden rather than Donald Trump.

    #1889027
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Would you vote for Hitlers grandson?”

    מִבְּנֵי בָּנָיו שֶׁל הָמָן לָמְדוּ תּוֹרָה בִּבְנֵי בְּרַק

    בָּנָיו שֶׁל סִיסְרָא לִמְּדוּ תִּינוֹקוֹת בִּירוּשָׁלַיִם

    מִבְּנֵי בָּנָיו שֶׁל סַנְחֵרִיב לִמְּדוּ תּוֹרָה בָּרַבִּים

    I read that every Tisha B’Av.

    #1889028
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    1
    Obama is working very hard to elect Democrats because we have suffered great;y under Trump nd the McConnell Senate.
    He is not working to salvage his legacy.

    I don’t know any rich Dems in my small town. I do know some comfortable people in both parties and unaffiliated, as well. None of us are patting each other on the back….DON”T YOU KNOW THERE”S A PANDEMIC?????????????????

    The party isn’t shifting to Socialism. FDR started that in the 1930s with Social Security, Johnson in the 1960s with Medicare. I want single payer Universal healthcare like the rest of the civilized world. Mrs. CTL was in the hospital again last week…6 days in ICU. Her policy is through ACA, I’m on Medicare. If Trump had her way, she’d have no coverage because of preexisting conditions. Maybe you don’t care if you go bankrupt trying to pay medical expenses, I do.

    #1889029
    charliehall
    Participant

    ” It is said that there was never a terrorist he failed to support and fund. ”

    And that is a lie. He never supported for funded Hamas or Hezbollah.

    Trump, OTOH, gave Lebanon’s armed forces $100 million, even though it has been controlled by a Hezbollah ally since December 2016.

    Typical Trumpie double standard.

    #1889030
    charliehall
    Participant

    Democrats and Republicans support their incumbents for re-election. Republicans were happy to have Ron Paul, who was even worse than Omar, in Congress for 23 years, and they never did anything about him. Pelosi at least has twisted Omar’s arm into a pretzel to get her to vote against anti-Semitism — three times. That said, if you really cared, you would contribute to Omar’s primary opponent, Antone Melton-Meaux. I have. antoneforcongress dot com.

    #1889102
    The little I know
    Participant

    CTL:

    So wrong. Obama wants to see the stuff he rammed into Washington that Trump eliminated to be restored and then some. The “damage” you imply that was caused or done by Trump is not detectable. The racial divides were worse under Obama, and have swelled to violence and crime that Obama and his ilk enjoy. The socialism that most refer to are the elimination of police (sounds nice, but even the Commies had police), and the redistribution of wealth. I would like to meet the Democrats of the recent era that oppose that.

    As for your wife’s pre-existing condition, Trump was extremely open about maintaining coverage for pre-existing conditions, even with his mission to abolish Obamacare. He spoke of that openly during his campaign, and he stands out as a president who did not flip flop from campaign promises once assuming office. I do wish your wife a refuah shelaimoh.

    Charlie:

    He sent billions in cold hard cash secretly to Iran, the funder of both Hezbollah and Hamas. Iran was never intending to use the money to supply pillows and blankets to refugees in Gaza or Lebanon. Admit it.

    And I laud you for contributing to Omar’s opponent.

    #1889118
    1
    Participant

    Trumps election was a reaction to the Obama presidency. Trump ran because Obama roasted him. Trump showed Obama that he could win with all the elites on his side.

    #1889130
    jackk
    Participant

    Obama has no ulterior motives other than to see what he believes in continued.
    His legacy is etched in gold already , no matter what the spiteful, despicable individual that came after him did .

    Nobody advocates or enjoys violence.
    “Elimination of police.” ?!
    The slogan is ‘defund the police’ . It is not ‘eliminate the police.
    It is hard to believe that someone thinks that someone believes that.
    When the republicans deal with racism and brutality by the police there will no longer be any protests.

    Socialism is the new republican slogan.
    I would like to meet the republicans that oppose the trillions of dollars that the government does not have, but anyway handed out to save millions of businesses and millions of americans .
    Republicans are the same socialists as they attack the democrats with. They just believe in socialism for the rich. Wall Street bailouts.

    Obama never gave 150 billion dollars to Iran. This is totally false. It was repeated by trump in a tweet because trump is the biggest lying president we have ever had.

    Here is the truth.
    The nuclear agreement, formally called the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, with Iran included China, France, Germany, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the European Union. The deal lifted some sanctions, which lifted a freeze on Iran’s assets that were held largely in foreign, not U.S., banks. And, to be clear, the money that was unfrozen belonged to Iran. It had only been made inaccessible by sanctions aimed at crippling the country’s nuclear program.

    Secondly, $150 billion is a high-end estimate of the total that was freed up after some sanctions were lifted. U.S. Treasury Department estimates put the number at about $50 billion in “usable liquid assets,” according to 2015 testimony from Adam Szubin, acting under secretary of treasury for terrorism and financial intelligence.

    #1889181
    The little I know
    Participant

    Jack

    How offensive, arrogant, and dishonest can you get! I have heard lies, bigger lies, and then your comment took dishonesty to new heights.

    You wrote: “Obama has no ulterior motives other than to see what he believes in continued.” Firstly, that means his legacy. Second, he has uttered his hate for Trump so many times it was getting boring. He wants Biden in, as this is a proverbial puppet. No mind of his own, in serious cognitive decline, and with dozens of skeletons in his closet. Obama will reign once again through his stuffed toy, Sleepy Joe.

    “His legacy is etched in gold already , no matter what the spiteful, despicable individual that came after him did .” Actually, no. Obama’s administration is lauded by no one outside of the DNC and the media they own. Otherwise, it was a foreign relations disaster, and domestically worse. Trump spoke like a fool, with his impulsive and offensive tweeting, and his narcissistic rants. But he accomplished more in a few months of presidency that Obama did in 8 years. There were many idiocies that needed to be reversed, like the Iran deal and others. Nothing is etched in gold. Much is etched in manure.

    “Nobody advocates or enjoys violence.
    “Elimination of police.” ?!
    The slogan is ‘defund the police’ . It is not ‘eliminate the police.
    It is hard to believe that someone thinks that someone believes that.
    When the republicans deal with racism and brutality by the police there will no longer be any protests.” Nonsense. Did you listen to some of the Democrat politicians? They advocate abolishing the police. NYC’s shifting of a billion was decried as useless, with the pressure to defund them to the zero level. They said it, and your cherished biased media reported that with pride.

    “Obama never gave 150 billion dollars to Iran. This is totally false.” That is an outright lie. He even had it delivered in secret and in cash. Again, check your biased media.

    You are pathetic. If you hate Trump, I can understand even though I may disagree. He is infrequently presidential, and i find it unbecoming. No, he did not create or escalate the racial divides. That nonsense is the narrative of the Dems, as are several other lies they brandish in their ads and media performances. But get on board with the matters of fact and fiction. I am willing to discuss, debate, and even be wrong on things. But I will never spend my time debating an issue that is fundamentally dishonest. Meanwhile, Obama sounded much more pleasant. But he wrecked too much. Trump has been the opposite. He sounds irritating, but accomplished an amazing amount.

    #1889214
    Someone in Monsey
    Participant

    $150 billion in cash, huh? Not quite. Under the JCPA, Iran obtained access to assets frozen by the US in the wake of the 1979 revolution, which was worth up to $150 billion. They were given a $1.3 billion dollar/400 million Euro payment, which was thought to be basically a ransom for a Washington Post reporter. That payment was not part of the $150 billion asset turnover.

    #1889221
    jackk
    Participant

    The Little I Know,
    Please do not resort to name calling.
    If you can disagree with objectivity there is what to discuss.

    First, you are confusing 2 different accusations against Obama regarding Iran and money.
    The 150 Billion dollars was never delivered with cash. I can’t even imagine $150,000,000,000 in cash.
    There was 400 Million dollars delivered to Iran in cash on a pallet in January 2016. It was on the same day as 4 American citizens detained were released and it was claimed to be for a decades-old dispute with Iran that had been litigated before an international tribunal and America was obligated to pay. You should check your version.

    The truth is I do not know Obama’s motivations, but neither do you. That is my point.
    You are not a psychologist and to propose that you are 100% positive of your understanding of Obama’s actions sounds a bit arrogant to me.
    His legacy is debatable (between favorable and critical ) as are all presidents .Presidents know that they must say and act in unpopular ways. Some people will laud them for it and some people will condemn them for it. You can claim that it is etched in manure and I can claim that it is etched in gold. I am not lying or being offensive or arrogant and neither are you.
    To claim that any action taken by a past president is in order to secure their legacy, without reading their minds , is pure speculation. Obama and Trump are doing what they believe in. Of course after they are out of office they will want what they believe in to continue. Nothing to do with a legacy.

    “Obama’s administration is lauded by no one outside of the DNC and the media they own. “This is partially true. But there are things that Obama did that even some republicans are in favor of . The Affordable Care act is one. The reversing the economy from the Financial crisis is another. Eliminating OBL is another . Trump also has done things that he will be lauded for by all Americans. For example, the first 3 years the economy was doing great according to all standards.
    You have your perspective but it is very subjective.
    The different views will partially depend on whether you listen to fox news or the Lincoln project.

    I never heard that a politician was in favor with the complete elimination of all police departments.
    Were they also in favor in freeing everyone from jails and prisons? Eliminating the army, navy, air force and marines? Eliminating the department of sanitation? Fire Department ?
    Where are you getting this information from ?
    The NYC police are still paid decently (not terrific) and can retire after 20 years with a pension. No need to be so worried about their pay or being eliminated.

    I never wrote anything about the racial divide and whether Trump is escalating.
    Regarding this point , I think we can agree that he is not trying to de-escalate it.

    #1889226
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    I usually stay out of politics but I had a question about the funds that were released to Iran as part of the JCPOA.

    I hear the argument that a significant amount of the frozen assets released was payments (plus interest) for weapons that Iran was purchasing from the U.S. while the Shah was in power and President Carter blocked the shipments and froze the accounts after the revolution. So in essence the money belonged to Iran in the first place.

    In 1995 an American, Alisa Flatow, was one of the victims of the Kfar Darom Bus Attack. In 1998 her father won a judgement against the Government of Iran for $247.5 Million.

    My question is why didn’t President Obama withhold the $247.5 Million (plus interest) that a Federal Judge ordered the Government of Iran pay the family before releasing the funds?

    Does anyone know how these things work?

    #1889232
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    1 it sounds like you are rather well connected with xPresident Obama and the inside workings of the Democratic party. Are you undercover at these meetings or the strategy sessions? I’d love to be impressed by your insider knowledge.

    #1889246
    charliehall
    Participant

    “He sent billions in cold hard cash secretly to Iran”

    It was Iran’s money. They were going to get it eventually. In exchange for the money, they agreed to give up their enriched uranium stockpiles and to stop enriching to weapons grade. And they actually did that. That is MUCH more important than anything else. And there had never been a better arms control agreement, with more safeguards. (I read the ones from the 1970s that we negotiated with the Soviet Union.)

    Then comes Trump, who kills the Deal. As a result, Iran still keeps the money, AND gets to enrich uranium to weapons grade. Thanks to Trump, they may already have a nuclear bomb. Which the Deal had pushed off for at least 15 years.

    The assumption by the Trumpies is that anything Obama did was bad for Israel and anything Trump does is good for Israel. The opposite is closer to the truth.

    #1889259
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The No. 1 Reason not to vote Republican:

    The Trumpkopf…..also reason nos. 2-10.

    #1889424
    The little I know
    Participant

    Charlie:

    You speak of Iran’s compliance with the deal as if it is verified fact. But that is not true at all. There were numerous reports of a wide variety of violations. At some point, Bibi made a public presentation with the evidence of much of the documentation of the activities they continued to carry on secretly. Some may have been outraged at the publicity, but the truth was undeniable. So Iran is not a friend, but a devious enemy that lies, cheats, and has zero respect for truth. Signing this was an unmitigated gall on Obama’s part. He knew, as we all do, that this piece of paper was for publicity only, and all the work towards nuclear weapons would continue. He just didn’t care about that because Iran did not have Washington in its crosshairs. It had Israel. And Obama viewed Israel as a pain in the neck, that needed to be tolerated to get the Jewish vote and to avoid conflicting with Congress that was friendly to her.

    Iran is at the same place today as they would have been under the deal that they never honored. All that sets them back are the opportunities that Israel finds to disrupt their work. Meanwhile, they were awarded the resources to fund terror against Israel by subsidizing Hamas and Hezbollah. If you like them so much, move there.

    #1889624
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Bibi made a public presentation with the evidence of much of the documentation of the activities they continued to carry on secretly”

    Bibi lied. Repeatedly. Before the Deal, After the Deal. His lies before Congress were so blatant that the Republicans didn’t even bother to arrange for a vote against the deal. The IAEA weapons inspectors confirmed repeatedly that Iran was in compliance with the nuclear deal. And his description of what was to be in the JCPOA in his speech to Congress was so different from reality as to wonder whether he should be involuntarily committed. (Yes, it was that bad.)

    Furthermore, Bibi did not propose any alternative to doing nothing and letting Iran get nuclear weapons — in six months, if you actually believe Bibi. (He had been saying “six months” for years.) The only real “alternative” was World War III.

    “Signing this was an unmitigated gall on Obama’s part.”

    It wasn’t Obama to “sign”. Kerry signed it. The JCPOA was then approved in a UN Security Council Resolution.

    I know that most commenters here hate Obama and love Trump. But Obama and Kerry removed the Iranian nuclear threat and Trump brought it back. Such irrational hatred and stupid love should make any politician think twice before sticking their necks out to help Israel. We need to support those who support us.

    #1889641
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Charlie,
    I honestly do not know what to make of your view on Iran.
    It’s not just dangerous.
    It is foolish and reliant on revisionist history.
    Obama’s deal did not get rid of the threat at all.
    Period.
    To state Obama supported Isreal in light of everything we know is willful blindness.
    It is sad to see what blind allegiance to a political party can do to someone.

    #1889697
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    Dr. Hall-

    The United States was the first country to obtain nuclear weapons and it took the United States 3-4 years to develop nuclear weapons- and that was over 75 years ago (tomorrow will be 75 years since the first Atom Bomb was used in conflict).

    The technology to create nuclear weapons is out there and readily available to any country that has the desire and money. Iran has stated that they have the desire and they definitely have the money now. I don’t think anyone will disagree with that.

    When Prime Minister Netanyahu stated that Iran was six months away from obtaining the bomb he was probably correct. If not through covert operations to derail the process they probably would have had nuclear weapons long ago. There’s no reason why with all the advancements in science and technology over the past 75 years that it should take more than a few years.

    The IAEA inspectors may have confirmed multiple times that Iran was in compliance with the deal but they can only check the sites that they know about. The trove of information that the Mossad stole from an Iranian warehouse proves that there were locations unknown to the IAEA.

    Regardless of weather the deal was good for Israel or not most will agree that after the 15 years are over Iran would have continued their quest for nuclear weapons- with billions of Dollars more. Even if the deal would have worked like it was supposed to (and you don’t know for certain that it did) it only pushed the problem down the road and exacerbated it by giving them access to so much cash.

    The prime minister of Israel has access to top secret reports that we don’t. He may choose to disclose some of them while keeping others under wraps. He may also decide against sharing it with Congress given that some of the members are rabid Anti-Semites.

    If you’re going to publicly call him a liar can you bring some examples? Please provide some cases where he stated something as a fact that was later proven to be factually false.

    #1889718
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    President Reagan’s saying against the Russians should have been applied to Iran, trust and verify, when it came to the nuclear treaty.

    #1889757
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    What was the gain of breaking the treaty? Now Iran can do what it wants.

    #1889864
    som1
    Participant

    “What was the gain of breaking the treaty? Now Iran can do what it wants.”
    Iran did what it wanted with the “treaty”

    #1889899
    1
    Participant

    You’re all forgetting that Trump authorized a successful hit on that evil general from Iran. Why couldn’t Obama do that?

    #1890004
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer-

    Before there was a treaty Iran was under crippling sanctions. I don’t know the exact details (you can easily look them up if you want) but they were limited in the amount of oil they could sell and which international banks they could do business with (amongst other types of sanctions).

    Weather Iran kept its part of the deal is up for dispute. Regardless of that, they publicized that in the meantime they were developing other types of dangerous weapons that didn’t violate the terms of the treaty. It was pretty clear to me that once the 15 years were up they were going to continue on with the development of nuclear weapons- with the added benefit of the billions of Dollars now available to them.

    By pulling out of the treaty the sanctions go back into effect (again, I’m not sure to what extent- you can look up the huge amount of sanctions on the State Departments website).

    If companies aren’t allowed to do business with Iran and they can lose their ability to do business within the US if they are caught, they’ll be very hesitant to engage in any commerce with Iran. If banks can’t hold money for Iranian accounts and businesses or process transfers for them (or those that do business with them) it will be very unpractical to use the billions of Dollars available to them.

    As Dr. Hall correctly pointed out earlier on, now Iran has the money and can continue with the enrichment of uranium. It’s not as easy as he made it sound.

    If you had $1,000,000,000 in cash but were under sanctions with no person, business or bank allowed to engage in commerce with you- you may be able to disguise yourself and buy groceries or a prepaid cellphone with cash but you wouldn’t be able to get a credit card, travel or open a business.

    #1890052
    interjection
    Participant

    They were allowed to do business with China and Russia, both of whom we cannot trust.

    #1890818
    Avi K
    Participant

    1, didn’t you ever hear of not punishing the sons for the sins of their fathers? FYI, there are children and grandchildren of Nazis who became frum Jews.

    CTL, on the contrary, whatever his personal failings Trump has filled the judiciary with friends of freedom of speech and religion. He is also the greatest friend of Israel since Truman. The Democratic party has been taken over by Marxists who are cancel the living and take down statues of the dead. Senile Joe Biden, who does not even know for what office he is running (he exhorted people to vote for him for the Senate) is just a figurehead.

    Charlie, Obama lavished money on the PA kleptocrats. They took the lion’s share for themselves and used the rest to pay monthly pensions to families of terrorists killed by Israel. Trump defunded them (although the Euronazis continue to pay).

    #1890935
    2scents
    Participant

    Interesting, seems like Charlie and the Netura Karta have pretty similar views.

    #1890943
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    I think Trump has filled the courts with terrible judges who will set us back 100 years.
    You, as a resident of Israel place far more importance on US support of Israel in evaluating a President than others who do not live in Israel. While important, it is not paramount in my criteria.

    Right now the damage he has done with Sino-US relations is crippling our economy and benefiting his buddy Putin. Trump never met a dictator he didn’t like. He follows the Hitler playbook and has been destroying our society.
    I am far from Marxist, but like many social programs, such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and am happy to pay taxes to fund them. I 100% oppose school vouchers that fund parochial schools with taxpayers’ dollars.
    When this all implodes Trump will be blaming son-in-law, Jared, the House Jew………

    #1890952
    The little I know
    Participant

    CTL:

    You drank the koolaid again. You are blabbering the Democrat narrative, and believe that repeating the nonsense multiple times will result in others buying it. I thought you were a lot smarter than that.

    We desperately needed a huge number of conservative judges, to rip us away from the liberal legislating from the bench.

    Sino-US relations were horrible, and lopsided. They needed change. Just that with Biden and his cronies, that would never happen. And the American population and our government would lose. The trade balance was awful, and was heading us into an abyss.

    Buddy Putin? That’s the narrative that the likes of Pelosi and Maxine Waters were pushing. Nonsense.

    I don’t mind disagreeing with you on the vouchers issue or the taxes that fund social programs. We can at least have a dialogue based on facts and their interpretations. But the drivel you spout that is nothing more than the Democrat Party narrative is pathetic, and I thought you were above that.

    #1891023
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL, if you mean that they will bring back America and undo the Obamanation then that will secure Trump’s place in history. Do you really want an America where traditionally religious people and others who defy the leftist cancel culture are persecuted by PC totalitarians? Do you really want an America where violent criminals are coddled?

    As for being happy to pay taxes for social programs, be a tzaddik with your own money not with others’. We learn this from Avraham Avinu. When he was rich he would not take a shoelace (although he insisted that his soldiers be paid) but when he owed money to innkeepers he took whatever he could halachically take, However, I suggest that you listen to what Thomas Sowell has to say about how they destroyed the black family and inculcated a culture a dependency.

    #1891137
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    I have heard and read T Sowell and am not impressed.
    You are in Israel, are you under the healthcare plan? I;d like everyone in America to have that option and am willing to pay more taxes to do so.
    This is a representative democracy and we elect legislators to decide what to tax and how to spend. We can vote for others in the next election if we are not happy with their choices. I’d rather that than a parliamentary system with votes of no confidence and 3 failed elections and no government formed.

    We will never agree

    #1891138
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Klei Yokor in Bereishis (28,14) on uforatzro yomo vokedmo, you will spread west and east asks why are the directions not in order but opposite to each other? He says it implies as the Midrash that Meshiach will come when we are on the lowest level and we exhausted all avenues having only hope in HKBH in bringing our redemptiion. It says in Tehilim (44,26) ki shocho leofor nafshenu, our soul has bent to the dust , dovko leoretz bitnenu, stuck to the earth is our belly, so we ask kumo esroso lonu ufdenu lemaan chasdecha, redeem us because of your kindness. Trump has brought us to this level, so he gives us hope for the redemption.

    #1891341
    charliehall
    Participant

    “You are in Israel, are you under the healthcare plan?”

    There are very few things more hypocritical than Israelis who benefit from their country’s generous welfare state condemning attempts to get the US even one that is a fraction as generous. Just today I had an unpleasant encounter with an Israeli who was blasting the idea of extending unemployment compensation in the US to help people cope with the consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic. I have previously had many such encounters with Israelis who like their own universal health insurance but think that Americans with pre-existing conditions should be left to die.

    I wonder whether these hypocrites are actually Jews. They certainly don’t think like Jews. And if we wonder why US support for Israel is declining, maybe we should look at these obnoxious Israelis.

    #1891366
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL, that odes not mean that it is wise. It does not even mean that it is constitutional. Once a NYS legislator was asked why he pushed a blatantly unconstitutional measure (it had to do with supporting religious schools). He answered that sometimes he has to do things like that to get votes.

    Charlie,
    1. Israel does not have a federal system. Moreover, it is approximately the size of NJ in both area and population. Insurance pools have always been state responsibilities. This would also be much more efficient.
    2. Israel’s system is mostly private. There is a basic plan that is funded through income-based premiums and distributed to HMOs on the basis of membership. The HMOs also offere voluntary supplementary plans forage-based premiums. Insurance companies also offer supplementary individual and group plans.

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