- This topic has 68 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by .
-
Posts
-
Lately, there have been many anti-semitic acts in Brooklyn and Williamsburg. It troubles me that its becoming more often than ever in the past. I am interested to know is anyone getting nervous? Is it perhaps time to leave America and live somewhere else? (Israel is the only safe place I can think of). Or are we going to wait and make the same mistake like our grandparents/great grandparents did in Europe r”l?
It may be directly or indirectly related to the headlines from Israel.
The situation is not like it was in Europe. Astute people did recognize that things were going really sour. The main reason people ignored it was because they did not want to believe it. I won’t dispute that there is always hate, but it is still not like then.
takish mamish, “Israel is the only safe place I can think of” ARE U NUTS the most amtisemmitick country, and u want to move there ?
There have also been attacks in Bergen County, NJ (west of NYC). There are some articles about it on YW.
It can cross the Hudson, it can happen anywhere. Depending on who you ask, Israel is also golus. With the violence that’s been going on there as well, I don’t know how we can feel completely safe anywhere until Moshiach comes.
Hi takish.
I dont think it is time to leave. And, if heaven forbid, it was; where would one go?
There has been an increase in antisemitism.
I once read a credible study with credible statistics on how antisemitism is a mental illness and held by some of the most socio/psychopathic members of society.
Having said that (as you can read), the rise makes sense.
It is due to a common jail house mentality.
President Obama has fanned the flames of these idiots with his numerous strong-arming and harsh speech to and about Israel.
Further, while the Tea Party was severely criticized, the counter, Occupy group, not so criticized, but even romanticized, has been open about blaming America’s problems on Jews. And that part of their platform has not been removed, nor has the President said such statements are totally untrue.
Obama’s lack of patriotism along with his love and concern for the arab world, in my opinion, has strengthened the antisemitic sub culture in America.
It happens to be a mitzvah do’arisah to live in eretz yisrael. You kind of need to move there, regardless of how good America is.
We all need to arm ourselves, that’s the answer. Obviously we must pray but also we need to buy weapons to defend ourselves
kfb: I don’t think that’s the answer but carrying a weapon and learning how to use it is a good idea. But perhaps we should stop building such fancy houses and having such fancy cars. Anti-semitism comes from jealousy. And it doesn’t help to have so many jews holding political office, even some very high positions, especially when the economy isn’t doing that great. Remember that the head of the federal reserve is jewish(surprise!)
Yahud -“takish mamish, “Israel is the only safe place I can think of” ARE U NUTS the most amtisemmitick country, and u want to move there ?”
Not only that, but they cause Antisemitism here in the US. For example, David Duke uses Israel to define Judaism!
According to Halacha, you are not allowed to say anything negative about EY. Remember what happened to the Meraglim when they said similar things?
I agree that there are serious problems with zionism, but we have to make sure that we keep Jewish anti-zionism separate from goyish anti-zionism (which is really another form of anti-Semitism). They are two completely different things and do not belong in the same discussion or on the same thread!
When we are fighting anti-Semitism, we must unite and not make public statements implying that there is ANY justification for it.
Also, EY and the medina are two separate things. There are sources that talk about how EY is the safest place in the world. The Shechina is here; therefore, the greatest protection is here.
Moderators, I do find the above comment very disturbing. Such comments should not be made in a public forum (or at all).
Health: David Duke is a Holocaust denying White Supremacist who essentially believes in the Protocols and therefore thinks that Jews have to be eradicated and/or rounded up and controlled to stop us from ruling the world. He uses Israel as an excuse, nothing more. Don’t judge Jews by what Nazis say about us.
Rav Meir Simcha said that if Jews think that Berlin is their Jerusalem the goyim will inform them that it is not. The same goes for Williamsburg, Boro Park, Teaneck, Monsey, etc.
lu: What are you referring to? A comment made 4 YEARS ago?
LU -“There are sources that talk about how EY is the safest place in the world.”
Joe doesn’t agree with you!
From a few years ago:
“Obaminator
Joseph
I find it disturbing that some people use FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) as a selling point to encourage others to move to Israel. And the fact is that living in Israel is not necessarily safer than living in America. Both are in golus.”
Sam2 +1 Jews are not the cause of anti-Semitism.
btw, Health, I hope you don’t take personal offense at anything I wrote above. I only wrote it because it needed to be said, and I tried to say it as nicely as possible. If you feel it could have been phrased differently, please let me know, so that I will know for next time. Thank you.
(and if you could ask for your post to be deleted, you would be doing me a big favor, and more importantly, it would be a big Mitzvah, and possibly save a lot of lives as well).
Sam2 -“He uses Israel as an excuse, nothing more”
It’s true, he’s Antisemitic. But Jews have to watch what they say – not to add fuel to the fire!
Health, you are correct. So stop writing anti-Israel diatribes. Anti-Semites might be reading the CR. This is not at all far-fetched. A goy I knew in NY threw out to me that the Satmars are anti-Israel and even called them the Sages of the Torah.
Avi K -“So stop writing anti-Israel diatribes.”
I’ll stop when Israel is given to Turkey! I had many discussions with you & other Zionists here on YWN.
Don’t you want Moshiach to come sooner, than later?!?
ya know what health? I think that is a really dangerous thing to say. People are so busy trying to make their level of disgust obvious to all that they don’t watch their words. Don’t ever wish Israel to be given to turkey! what a horrific thing. to hand a country filled with jewish people to a government that wants them dead?! is that really what you wish for all the jews who are living in that country ch”v?
To say jerusalem is safer than NY just isnt true. Terrorists have attacked jews davening in Shul. Terrorists have attacked jews in Machane Yehuda. Unfortuantly terrorists have deemed the jerusalem light rail a terrorist target 🙁
I find it amazing that people can be so blind.
The message of Hitler’s Germany was not that we need to pay more careful attention to the political landscape, or that we need to find a place which will provide us with better security, or that we need to arm ourselves, all of which misconceptions appear above in this thread.
The message of the Holocaust is that the only source of security upon which we can rely is HKBH. It is only by His boundless mercy that we can hope to exist, let alone prosper. All of the trappings of contemporary political or societal developments are nothing more than smoke and mirrors designed to distract us from this fact.
This is the one and only important factor to our health, wealth, happiness, prosperity and security, as spelled out clearly and directly in the Torah dozens (if not hundreds) of times: ?? ????? ???? ???.
When we thing it’s about who wins the White House, we have lost the race.
When we think it’s about where we live, we are in foreign territory.
When we think it’s about how well we can aim a gun, we are completely off target.
It is about none of these things. They are all, ultimately, utterly unimportant. The Holocaust happened in what was then the most civilized nation on Earth, which was, incidentally, the first country to grant full citizenship to Jews, about one short century before attempting their extermination. If it can happen then and there, it can happen anytime, anywhere.
It is only HKBH who can protect us, and He has told us what it would take. ?? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???.
catch yourself -“I find it amazing that people can be so blind.”
Well said! The reason I post the way I do – is because Israel’s government is secular!
Now the Zionists will counter it’s becoming Frummer. This is true in the Knesset. But the final word is in their Supreme Court!
Until the final word is a Bais Din, with all types of Frum, not just MO, I won’t support the country called Israel!
“Well said! The reason I post the way I do – is because Israel’s government is secular!”
It’s important to distinguish between the government and Eretz Yisrael. They are two separate things. The Israeli government can’t take away from the Kedusha of EY and the special protection that it merits in the zchus of its inherent Kedusha as well as the zchus of all those in EY who learn and keep the Torah with great mesiras nefesh.
Also, as I wrote before, the issues you have with zionism should be kept in a separate discussion. Our issues with zionism have to do with the fact that the government is not religious.
That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the antizionism of Antisemites who are anti-Zionist because they hate Jews and it is a Jewish State.
When it comes to antisemites, we must unite, and not say anything that can lead to more antisemitism.
They are not against the State because it is not Frum -they are against it because it is Jewish, and therefore we do NOT agree with their anti-zionist stance, and we FULLY support the Israeli government against the attacks of antiSemites!
“Joe doesn’t agree with you!”
Az mah?
Anyhow, I agree with the first point – that shouldn’t be THE reason used to convince people to move here. I actually had an argument with someone about that recently.
iacisrmma – I was responding to Health’s comment made shortly before mine was. He was the one who pulled this up from 4 years ago.
SL -“to hand a country filled with jewish people to a government that wants them dead?!”
Stop with the dramatics to make your point!
I don’t think Israel would make diplomatic relations, that they just did, with a country out to destroy every last one of them!
LU -“It’s important to distinguish between the government and Eretz Yisrael. They are two separate things”
So therefore? You’re the only one who brought up EY!
“That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the antizionism of Antisemites who are anti-Zionist because they hate Jews and it is a Jewish State.”
You make statements that aren’t true! I made it clear in the other topic, that some Antisemitism is based on things that were said in Israel against all Goyim!
Health,
1. Do you really want us to be under Erdogan? Or are you suggesting a turkey for PM? Perhaps you are simply in the Thanksgiving spirit.
2. I want him to come sooner which is why I say “reidheet tzemichat geulateinu”.
stop with the dramatics? you have got to be kidding, Mr. Exclamation point. Who said anything about diplomatic relations. You said when Israel is given to turkey. Maybe you realize you overspoke and are trying to back pedal?
Health – it is really assur to say the things that you are saying. You are speaking badly about Am Yisrael to goyim and telling them that (some) anti-Semitism is legitimate. That is both assur and very dangerous!
As someone already said (I think it’s on the other thread), We treat goyim far better than they treat each other! We bend over backwards for the Arabs, so don’t say such things.
zehavasdad:
I have not lived in NY in a long time. Maybe the situation has changed. But I lived in the city and in the suburbs as a child. There were many places near us where one just did not go because it was not safe. Even in our “safe” suburb, a child could not safely go out alone at night. There was a certain level of caution (and sometimes a level of fear) about kidnapping, crime, etc. In NYC we had several locks on the doors. I was so well trained in door locking that it took me many many years in EY to become comfortable with the idea that an apartment’s front door could be left unlocked when people were home and awake. We just didn’t do things like that.
Here, kids go to the store alone at three or four years old to buy milk. They can go out after dark. I have many neighbors who leave their door unlocked (or open) whether they are home or not. (We lock ours when not home or when everyone is sleeping.) My children have much more freedom here than I had growing up in NY.
We didn’t talk to strangers. My kids asked strangers to “cross them the street” (safely take them across the street when they were too young to cross themselves).
Yes, there are terrorist attacks. I think more people are killed in car accidents. There is far less crime, and far more caring between strangers. There is also a closeness to Hashem, a special level of shmira. We feel (and are) safer. Not perfectly safe, but safer. More secure. More free.
JM13- +1!
I feel much safer in Eretz Yisrael. When I am in the US, I can’t walk around at night. I couldn’t go to the shopping area in Lakewood after 5:00 pm in the Winter. I was once mugged at 9:00 pm in the Summer. When I told someone about it, she said, “Why were you walking around at 9:00 pm?”
In EY, you can safely walk around till 2:00 am. I have lived here for many years, and I am out at all hours, and Boruch Hashem, I have never once been mugged. I have rarely ever had to cross the street or choose a different route because a particular person or neighborhood seemed scary.
When I lived in the US, whenever I heard a noise late at night, I would get scared and look out the window to see if anyone was trying to break in. Here, I never have to worry about such things. Sometimes when I hear a noise at night and I start to get startled, but then I remember that I am back in EY and I have nothing to be scared of. I keep the door locked, but you really don’t have to (at least not for safety), and many people don’t.
Everyone in my city is Jewish, and the majority are Frum.
I definitely feel more secure, more relaxed and more free here as JM13 put it.
Avi K -“1. Do you really want us to be under Erdogan?”
No, I don’t! Do you really want to live in a “Jewish” country that hates the Torah?
SL -“You said when Israel is given to turkey.”
I said that because Turkey doesn’t stop Religious Jews from practicing their religion!
Do you really think that Israel has freedom of religion?
How about the Draft requirements?!?
LU -“Health – it is really assur to say the things that you are saying. You are speaking badly about Am Yisrael to goyim and telling them that (some) anti-Semitism is legitimate. That is both assur and very dangerous!”
Stop legitimizing Israel! Stop equating Israel with the Frum Yidden that live there! I’m only saying that we can’t say what we want because we’re in Golus!
We should not be adding fuel to their fire, when it comes to Antisemitism!
what does that have to do with this conversation? You wanted to let us know how much you hate the state of israel so you said you wouldn’t be happy until Israel – and thereby all it’s inhabitants – is given to turkey. Which would put them all at risk of death. Do you really wish our gedolim to be living in turkey ch”v or under turkish rule? Do you really think our yeshivos should be moved to turkey ch”v? I don’t think you have any idea what the ramifications are of such a horrific thing. Be very careful who you hate and how you word things when you curse them.
SL -“and thereby all it’s inhabitants – is given to turkey. Which would put them all at risk of death”
Stop with the Zionist propaganda!
I got news for you – Jews got along with the Goyim in EY under Ottoman (Turkey) Rule!
It’s not until Zionism reared its’ ugly head, did Jews become target practice!!!
saying the word Israel is not zionist propaganda.
Telling posters not to wish a country filled with Jews to be handed to a ruler who hates us is not zionist propaganda.
Think before you speak – if you want to comment on zionism, learn the difference between zionists and Jews. And be really careful.
SL -“saying the word Israel is not zionist propaganda.”
I didn’t say it was!
Reread my post. This is:
“given to turkey. Which would put them all at risk of death”
“Telling posters not to wish a country filled with Jews to be handed to a ruler who hates us is not zionist propaganda”
He didn’t hate us until Israeli forces attacked Turkey’s ship.
Now they made peace. Giving them the land, with some other countries security, is a better way than constantly fighting the Goyim!
Health, did you ever hear of Djemal Pasha? How about the Damascus blood libel (when it was part of the Ottoman Empire)?
Health: I suggest consulting with some gedolei Torah and find out their opinion before expressing your ideas. I’ve never heard of ANY gadol suggest what you seem to be advocating. Why do you even dream that Turkey would want E.Y at all? Because the Ottoman Empire had it about 100 years ago? The Byzantines and the Romans had it even earlier than that. Well, they don’t exist anymore, you will say. Well, guess what? The Ottoman Empire doesn’t exist anymore either. Ask the president or PM of Turkey if their state is a continuation of the Ottoman Empire. You know very well what they will say. “The Ottoman Empire is gone, finished! Today’s Turkey is a modern, secular state.”
You know what there is instead? There’s Hamas, ISIS, and assorted cutthroats who would jump into any kind of power vacuum, any kind of lack of control, security in the country. They would be more than happy to c”vs massacre every Yid that they could get their hands on. INCLUDING THE FRUMME YIDDEN. Don’t delude yourself. The ISIS murderers wouldn’t blink for a moment to slaughter everyone. Before 1948 the situation was different. Today’s situation requires a different approach. We have to put up with the present political structure, with all of its serious flaws. Because any other stance, particularly the one you are advocating, is a serious danger to around 7 million Yidden living here in E.Y. Don’t believe me? Come here and arrange a meeting with Rev Chaim Kanievsky and Rav Ahron Leib Steinman. They will tell you that what we have to do is build more Torah institutions, more shiurim, more kiruv, spread more light of Yiddishkeit. That is our job. One can disdain the govt. while still caring about the Yidden, even the seculars, who live here. You don’t like this idea? That’s your prerogative. But don’t sit in the USA and criticize what the gedolim here are telling us to do.
Avi K -“did you ever hear of Djemal Pasha?”
No, but I looked it up. He liked killing Arabs & Armenians.
He was assassinated by Armenians.
What’s your point?
Did you ever hear of Dr. Yaakov Yisrael Dehan?
And who killed him?!?
AY -“I suggest consulting with some gedolei Torah and find out their opinion before expressing your ideas”
My opinions are based on the Daas Torah that I was taught!
You could have different Gedolim, but don’t negate my opinions because you were taught differently!
It’s very childish to say – I should go to speak to your Gedolim, because there can’t be Gedolim that can disagree!
Instead of arguing about intangibles, we should pool all our resources to spread Torah and mitzvos throughout E.Y. and indeed the entire world!
AY -“Just to reiterate, no gadol in E.Y. holds of making ANY kind of deal that would hand sovereignty (i.e., security control) to any Arab entity or Moslem state”
Stop with your childish posting! Why would a Godol be asked such a question?
They only deal in reality, not the hypothetical!
When and if the Israeli leaders decide such a thing, then we can ask a Shailah.
I have never been a victim of a crime anywhere except for Paris, France
I do not feel unsafe in NY, Its very safe now. I didnt feel unsafe in Israel either for the most part (I was in the old city at night and was a little at uneast, but it could have been me not the real situation)
The point only was Crime might be more of an issue in the US, but terrorism is more of an issue in Israel. Traffic accidents are an issue in both places
Health!:
My opinions are based on the Daas Torah that I was taught!
Name them.
Zahavasdad, people generally are inured to dangers to which they are used. When I first came to Israel and told people from France that I was from the Bronx they asked how I could live in such a dangerous place. For that matter, when the first Gulf War broke the chevruta of a friend of mine received a hysterical phone call from his mother. After she calmed down she told him in a matter-of-fact manner that his brother had been robbed at gunpoint.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.