December 7, 2022 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #2145630
A recent yahoo poll:
Do you approve, disapprove, or are unsure of Trump’s meeting with K West:
Democrats: 40% either approve or unsure
Republicans: 73% either approve or unsure
Summary: The above combines approve & unsure because both are despicable. The only saving grace of being unsure is if they hadn’t heard of the controversy. In sum, disappointing for both parties. But clearly Republicans appear more antisemitic. Granted maybe fox didn’t say much about the meeting so maybe that’s why their “unsure” number is much higher? 37% of republicans said unsure. 21% of dems said unsure.
As for the pure “Approve” camps, Dems = 19% and Republicans = 38%. So no matter how you look at it, Republicans are clearly more anti-semetic, and seemingly 2x the amount of Dems.
“Biden voters”: 11% approve of the meeting. 18% unsure
“Trump voters: 38% approve, 39% unsure
Summary: speaks for itself.
Finally, a separate group was first shown anti-Jewish statemets Fuentes had made and then asked if they approved of the meeting with him. Even after being told of his antisemetic comments,
Democrats: 32% either approve or unsure
Republicans: 47% either approve or unsure
Summary: again, disheartening for both. But Republicans “win” across the board by a significant margin. Furthermore, Trump supporters overwhelmingly outperform Biden supporters in their hatred for Jews.December 7, 2022 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #2145638
The Chasan Sofer explains in the Hagadah why the Chacham is using a similar expression of excluding himself as the rasha. He is called a chacham and not a tzadik as his behavior is smart. The rasha hides the fact that he is a rasha in order that the others should not knock his teeth out. The chacham does an action to get the rasha to reveal himself. By using a similar expression, the rasha thinks that he is also a rasha and thereby uses an unequivocal expression to exclude himself. Similarly, Trump by not condemning the white supremacists, makes them think that Trump approves their behavior since he is one of them.December 7, 2022 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2145642lakewhutParticipant
How many Democrats believe anti-zionism isn’t antisemitism? A great many Democrats are anti Israel but think they are a separate issue from hating Jews? Many progressives are allies with Islamists. Go to a university with a kippah and you’ll get harrased by such liberals.December 7, 2022 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2145652
This is a farcial meaningless so-called “poll” that was designed to produce the Democrat desired results.
The Democrats have been the party tolerating, accepting, welcoming and honoring antisemites, especially black antisemites, for many many decades. Whereas the Republicans have institutionally rejected antisemites.December 7, 2022 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #2145704
ujm: I certainly did not say there aren’t antisemites in the D party. Just that the numbers indicate Rs are much more so, and particularly Trump supporters. You’re right, surveys could be flawed. But if these results surprise you, you need a wake up call.
Lakewhut: I just looked up a poll from Brooking Institute, I think they are left leaning. Let’s assume you’re right that anti-zionism = antisemite. I propose BDS is a good measure of anti-zionism. The June 2022 poll says 33% of democrats polled say they support BDS. That’s higher than the mere 19% of democrats who “approved” of Trump’s meeting, but still lower than the 38% of Trumpers who approved of the meeting. For republicans, 9% supported BDS. Much lower as an indicia of anti-semitism, but how about the fact that 38% of republicans APPROVED Trump meeting nazi lovers? This meeting is much more dangerous and offensive sign of Jew-hating to me, there’s no way to spin this meeting.
Did you ever try walking through these campuses? Try a few and let me know your experience. If you act like a decent, respectful person you may be surprised.December 7, 2022 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #2145705
When it comes to anti-semitism, see the Meshech Hachmah in Parashas Bechukosai on V’af Gam Zos.December 7, 2022 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #2145711
ujm: upon further thought-
1. Maybe the institution passed a resolution against antiS (did it?), but Trump’s action and words mean more. Just because a workplace has an anti-discrimination policy, it doesn’t mean they follow it. It’s polite at best. The poll shows just that.
2. If an American APPROVES a former president meeting nazis and not explicitly condemning anti-semitism, it means they wouldn’t mind if we get rounded up, chas v’shalom. BDS activists would not support anything like that, even if we assume they are all anti-semetic. It’s the right wing nazi-sympathizing crowd that’s more extreme in their hatred. Moreover, the anti-BDS republican crowd supports Israel for their own religious views, it’s not out of love of the Jew for being a Jew.December 7, 2022 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #2145706SQUARE_ROOTParticipant
The Yahoo Poll is NOT reliable, because the Yahoo Corporation is dominated by far-leftist Democrats, as are other high-tech corporations, like: Google, YouTube, FaceBook, Instagram, Reddit (and Twitter before Mr. Elon Musk bought it).
For example, when Donald Trump was running for re-election, Yahoo News published FIVE  ARTICLES EVERY DAY that attacked Donald Trump, while publishing ZERO  articles that attacked the Democratic candidate – Joe Biden.
Additionally, the results of the Yahoo Poll can be explained by the fanatical-hatred that members of the Democratic Party have for Donald Trump.
Additionally, Democratic National Committee chairman Tom Perez described [Alexandria] Ocasio-Cortes, [Ilhan] Omar, [Rashida] Tlaib, and others comparing Israel to Nazi Germany as: the “future of the Democratic Party”.
SOURCE: A blow to BDS in the House by Jonathan S. Tobin, 2019/7/24
link removedDecember 7, 2022 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #2145749
Of all people in the world, Donald Trump is thale least antisemitic of all. Donald Trump is a proven, lifetime (i.e. reputationally and actionably long before he entered politics through his presidency), Oheiv Yisroel. Klal Yisroel has few friends from Umos Haolam as good as Donald Trump.December 7, 2022 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #2145708
Well you convinced me I should vote for late term abortion, toiveh being taught in schools, bris is mutilation, yeshivas should be closed and my tax dollars should be used for imperialism to be foisted upon every country in the world that doesn’t promote liberal values.
editedDecember 7, 2022 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #2145788smerelParticipant
The poll is meaningless. Had it been about Biden meeting with anti-Semites like Farrakhan you would probably get even more lopsided results with Republicans opposing and Democrats supportingDecember 7, 2022 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #2145798
I would answer the same as square root
Fox or newsmax can make the same poll and would come pro republicansDecember 7, 2022 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #21457961Participant
er Trump isn’t in office but there are currently quite a few loud Democrats in office who are anti-Israel if they don’t outright support BDS they are supportive of other pro-Palestinian policies. ANTIFA and BLM caused more violence than this meeting.December 7, 2022 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #2145826
Coffee: Yes, I would use a fox poll, they are generally reputable (Not to mention they also predicted Trump would lose!).
Square root, you make valid points. Possible bias, and possibly anti-Trump would automatically dissapprove. So this would imply that yes, republicans are anti-jew, but more dems than showing above may be too.
Lostspark: I wasn’t trying to convince you to be radical progressive and wouldn’t want to either. But your deflection is noteworthy: If the nazis in Germany were anti-abortion, anti-toeva, etc., would you still vote for that rasha? Is that still SO important? Since the nazis, any and every American politician would consider being portrayed as hitler as the plaue. Trump is the first who doesn’t seem to mind so much. I saw a KKK-shirted guy jump on his stage and he didn’t explicitly condemn the guy’s views. He actively courts these people’s votes. The fact that he deleted references to Jews for holocaust remembrance day, the fact he hasn’t explicitly apologized, etc., tells you something. Which leads me to-
UJM’s comment: WOW, an ohev Yisroel, the least antisemetic… in the WORLD? How do you know? Are you his friend? Or did you hear some Jews who happened to be on his payroll say that? Oh, his daughter married a yid (which he was actually annoyed about). As I pointed out in other post, an ohev Yisroel means they are also willing to stand up for Jews when they are berated, threatened or insulted. All of his actions have combined to normalize hate against us, and he hasn’t said anything meaningful to make things better.December 7, 2022 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #2145821
Some say that Trump is such great oheiv yisrael but he does not show it as he does not speak up against anti-semitism. Our enemies think that he is part of them and approves their behavior.December 7, 2022 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #21458351Participant
Obama didn’t get Rubashkin out of jail; Trump did.December 8, 2022 1:48 am at 1:48 am #2145847
“Our enemies think that he is part of them and approves their behavior.”
Are these the same enemies of ours that want our yeshivos to be forced to teach our children secular drek?December 8, 2022 8:35 am at 8:35 am #2145859
I think you (deliberately?) misunderstood my post
Polls are done in such a way to get a desired outcome, since yahoo is anti trump and anti right they want it to be shown in a certain light and specifically did it that way
Who groups approve and unsure together? Obviously something that wants to add percentages to approveDecember 8, 2022 8:37 am at 8:37 am #2145863
Thank you Reb Eliezer. Do you say we are at a stage where we’ve forgotten? And trying to “improve” or create something that’s not our mesorah? Or at least the masses who are flocking to a nationalism that makes no effort to welcome them. That’s the odd part.December 8, 2022 9:27 am at 9:27 am #2145927
You can’t fix biasedDecember 8, 2022 9:31 am at 9:31 am #2145926ubiquitinParticipant
I had the opposite reaction on the poll
It says a bit more about Trump than antisemitism.
It is no secret Trump is a polarizing figure. As Trump said “I could shoot a person on 5th avenue and I wouldn’t lose any voters” There is no doubt that this is true (“any” is an exaggeration he wouldn’t lose many voters) Not becasue Republicans support murder, but becasue they like Trump.
The 73% of republicans who support or are unsure about the visit aren’t anti-Semitic per se, they are so blinded by the cult of Trump that they come up with excuses, he didnt know etc etc .
not that this is good, obviously a cult of personality isnt healthy, but I’m not sure it is anti-Semitic per se.
What is shocking is 40% !!! of Democrats who generally oppose anything Trump says or does. on THIS they support or are unsure ?!!!??
that is wild!December 8, 2022 10:13 am at 10:13 am #2145930GadolhadorahParticipant
“Obama didn’t get Rubashkin out of jail; Trump did…”
He also moved the nameplate on a building from Tel Aviv to Yerushalayim but what does that have to do with his deliberate efforts to legitimize anti-semitism by providing a platform for some of the worst Jew-haters in our country and promoting racist and anti-semitic tropes.December 8, 2022 10:36 am at 10:36 am #2145954
Coffee: I did understand and acknowledge biases. And it was I who combined approve + unsure. I figured most of those “unsure” on both sides KNEW about the incident but didn’t have the nerve to come out and approve. But maybe in the process I am being biased myself, though I figured at least I am being equal to both Rs and Ds.
ubiquitin- I’ve thought this as well about Trumpism. If a voter is willing to go along with his leader and doesn’t condemn antisemitism because he loves his leader so much, can we say his silence is a form of antisemitism because such an outrageous act is given a pass? We have historically cast blame on the German people in a similar vein. I’d say AT LEAST that we couldn’t call such a person an ‘oheiv Yisroel.’ Kal v’chomer on a leader who might hypothetically like the Jewish people but cares about courting antisemetic voters more than sticking up for us publicly.December 8, 2022 10:58 am at 10:58 am #2145962lakewhutParticipant
Recognizing Jerusalem as the capital is supporting Israel which means Jews. Democrats not doing the same was because they support Palestinians who hate Jews. Democrats hide their antisemitism by hiding. Trump supported Jews with action. Obama a follower of reverend wright and Farrakhan didn’t pardon rubashkin when he could have because he doesn’t like Jews.December 8, 2022 10:59 am at 10:59 am #2145965ubiquitinParticipant
for sure its terrible that many Republicans ignore Trump’s outrageous actions.
I didn’t mean to dismiss that
I’m expressing shock that 40% of Democrats support/unsure of Trumps’ meeting.
I don’t think there is ANY other thing Trump did that would have 40% of Democrats’s support
THIS is where they say, maybe he’s right, or at least I’m unsure.
Of the 2 I find that the more shocking statisticDecember 8, 2022 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2145992akupermaParticipant
I know that all employment discrimination I encountered have been at the hands of liberal Democrats (usually non-Orthodox Jews). The only times I have been physically threatened have been by people who based on ethnicity and location are probably liberal Democrats. I have never felt unsafe, or discrimination against, by conservatives/Christians.
While I know that in the past things were different, we need to remember that what has made America exceptional is the willingness to ignore history. Even at the very founding of the republic, people’s who ancestors fought on opposite in Britain’s civil war, found themselves serving together in the Continental Army. It is a very dumb idea to be mad at the “Religious Right” because of events that happened centuries ago in Europe. To take a more recent example, many Polish Jews tried to be on the German side when Germany and the Soviet Union partitioned Poland in 1939 since the remember the good German behavior in occupied area during World War I.
Based on the world as it is today, liberal (WOKE) Democrats are the biggest threats to us.December 8, 2022 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2145991
ubiquitin – thanks for explaining. That’s a great point. Do you think the “unsure” Dems really didn’t know about KWest stuff going on at the time when asked? Either way, even the 19% “accept” is much higher than I’d expect from them. Maybe like 10% I could imagine.December 8, 2022 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #2146013Pine Lake ParkParticipant
DUMBEST POLL YET!!
Well, if you use a topic that Repiublicans are sympathetic to, like Ye, who is a right wing conservative, and Trump – whaddaya expect?? Novelty, Please??
Why dont you make a poll about many other topics that Demonrats are more sensitive too and the results will LITTERALLY be the EXACT OPPOSSITEDecember 8, 2022 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #2146015
“It is a very dumb idea to be mad at the “Religious Right” because of events that happened centuries ago in Europe.”
I’m not sure which event you refer to. But as far as any implicit bias I have against any right-winger is that Hiler yamach shmo was a right-winger. And don’t buy what some revisionists may tell you on this site: naming it the “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” did NOT make it socialist; he named it that to appeal to all the Germans as he could. In any event, I am still willing to go right-wing, but physical Jewish survival and stability comes before voting on social laws. Most of these social laws right OR left wingers are advocating for on a federal level don’t affect you or your children as a practical matter if you are living as a frum Jew and send your kids to Jewish schools. The scariest laws Dems want to pass federally are fringe ideas, and while these could be problematic, the bigger credible and immediate threat given rise in white nationalism is physical survival and stability for Jews, per above. Add to boot that we don’t have a mesorah of advocating social policy/laws on a national basis, and I’m willing for the moment to look for moderate D or R candidates who embrace a live and live policy, even if it isn’t the Torah ideal.
I’ve also encountered workplace issue by liberal Jews. But I’ve also experienced hostility in clearly red/white/Christian communities, including nazi salutes on 2 occassions.December 8, 2022 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #2146067akupermaParticipant
er: Hitler was a socialist who installed an economic system very similar to China in the 21st century. The conservatives opposed him (remember that German conservatives at the time wanted to restore the monarchy, but Hitler was a staunch republican (small “r).
Leaders of the Democratic party include Al Sharpton, who they treat as a senior statesman, who has the distinction of having organized the only pogrom against Jews in American history (there were pogroms against Italians, Chinese and Blacks, among others – mostly organized by Democrats).
I suggest the standard “test” for anti-semitism is whether a potential employer will accommodate Sabbath observance, and it is typically labor unions (all of which are Democrat) or the good liberal institutions that dominate the Blue cities, that are the ones causing us problems.
The most serious laws the Democrats are pushing including punishing large families, banning tax exemption to institutions that oppose homosexual behavior, and requiring students to go to schools that teach a woke agenda. And the supporters of such laws appear to be in the ascendancy.
We are better off with a conservative regime that opposes such innovations and supports the formerly well established tradition of freedom of religion as a core American value, which the exceptionalism that has made America the biggest success since we were kicked out of Eretz Yisrael.December 12, 2022 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #2146861ToShmaParticipant
Had Greenblatt be a fair and not a radical lefty (including appeasing fascistic CAIR lobby by going after CanaryMission) , I would ask him… but as is, sometimes it’s more dangerous when one wraps hid/her hate under “I’m just anti Israel” BS(d).December 12, 2022 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #2146939
The Right supports protecting religious rights, bris mila, schechita, building shuls in residential neighborhoods, kapporos, wearing religious clothing in public, marrying our children at young ages, having many children, protecting us from minority violent criminals, educating our children in Yeshivos according to Torah standards rather than government standards, etc.
Whereas, it is the Left than opposes Jews on the above issues.December 12, 2022 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #2146951
Anyone attempting to disagree with UJM’s point stated above is expressing solidarity with elitist leftist culture.
Only someone corrupted by higher secular education and high profile media consumption could not believe UJM is objectively correct with his stance. I’m getting sick an tired of listening to people I know attempt to be apologetic for the institutional left when we all know they are flinging so because it’s the safer route.December 12, 2022 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #2146988
The right supports maybe everything mentioned above except for caring for the financial needs of people.December 12, 2022 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #2147012
That cannot be said after the attempted dissolution of international trade agreements under the Trump administration under the guidance of Peter Navarro who previously worked under the Clinton admin.
The student loan forgiveness program is written up by cultural elites for cultural elites. It’s shameful the cleaning lady should be forced to pay for their employers financial stupidity.December 13, 2022 9:25 am at 9:25 am #2147191
When I went to college I did not need student loans. After the first 18 credits taken at CUNY with a passing grade, one became matriculated and was able to attend for free.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.