Anti-Vaxxers

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  • #1861912

    When the coronavirus vaccine comes out will we have the same ignorant and misguided people, who will say that they have a right to refuse to get a vaccine? Will there be another surge in antisemitism due to Jewish anti-Vaxxers?

    #1861956
    Milhouse
    Participant

    Jews are an insignificant minority of anti-vaxxers, and anti-vaxxers are an insignificant minority of Jews. The stats on the measles vaccine showed that the Orthodox Jewish community had a higher vaccination rate than the national average. Only a very few whackos within the frum community oppose vaccines, and it’s unfair to portray us as providing a fertile environment for such. It’s impossible and unreasonable to expect any community to be completely free of crazy people. Anyone who would be provoked to antisemitism by this is already an antisemite anyway, so we shouldn’t worry about them.

    #1862040
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I think it is still bad to provoke anti-Semitism, even if the anti-Semites are already anti-Semites.

    #1862051
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    If memory serves, TYW resident anti-vaxxers (nebach) already started declaring their opposition.

    #1862093
    marbehshalom
    Participant

    I do vaccinate, but i would never call people who dont vaccinate
    “wackos”.

    #1862094
    jdf007
    Participant

    We have a large group in this country who doesn’t believe there even is a pandemic. have you seen the images of the protestors for one small example? We have another large group in this country who believes the virus never ever touches a “young” (undefined) and “healthy” (very undefined). If we take these facts, and combine it with the participation rate of other newer vaccines which is actually relatively low (Hepatitis, HPV, and some others I never heard of) , I don’t expect a lot of people will be getting the vaccine. Then there are the other people who might be reasonable and don’t want to be first for a vaccine that was rushed to market.
    There’s a lot of people from Maine to California who refuse to cover their mouth and wear a mask. I don’t expect them to get an injection. If they wore a mask, we’d be in a position where I wouldn’t even be forced to get invasive injections. Why is this preferable to a mask? That is my own opinion, however.
    America, land of individualism and me me me. Leave the Jews out of it for once. There’s too many others out there.

    #1862080
    The Shady Charedi
    Participant

    For those who are interested, here is a 1-line synopsis of various peer-reviewed medical journal articles from different studies around the world, analysing how those who’ve had a flu vaccine react to corona-related viruses, and compare to those who have not had flu shots. (Contact me, or google them for the actual articles if you’re interested).

    “Pentagon Study: Flu Shot Raises Risk of Coronavirus by 36%”

    “2018 CDC Study: Flu shots increase risk of non-flu acute respiratory illnesses (ARI) in children.”

    “2011 Australian Study: Flu shot doubled risk of non-influenza viral infections and increased the risk of virus-associated acute respiratory illness, including influenza, by 73%.”

    “2012 Hong Kong Study: Flu shots increased the risk of non-flu respiratory infections 4.4 times and including influenza, tripled the overall viral ARI risk.”

    “2017 Study: Vaccinated children are 5.9 more likely to suffer pneumonia, 3.8 times greater risk of ear infections, and 30.1 times more likely to have been diagnosed with Allergic Rhinitis than unvaccinated children.” (“30 times” !!!)

    “2014 Study: Influenza-vaccinated children were 1.6 times more likely than unvaccinated children to have a non-influenza “Influenza-like-illness” (ILI).”

    #1862065
    reform rabbi
    Participant

    Vaccines cause lower fertility

    #1862141
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear The,
    I used google. Hmmmm. Some of these studies do not even exist. The first one you listed is dated on other boards as taking place in 2020. Why did you leave that out?
    Last year, during the measles (The disease that kills 100,000 children a year.) I was in Lakewood. I overheard a yungerman who had conducted his own study: Unvaccinated children have autistic parents.

    #1862149
    bk613
    Participant

    “Vaccines cause lower fertility”

    That’s really interesting. I would think they increase fertility because they contain aborted fetal cells…

    #1862150
    Milhouse
    Participant

    Search for “No Evidence That Flu Shot Increases Risk of COVID-19”

    #1862303
    yochy
    Participant

    Are you kidding? It is very possible that part of why this punisment came in the first place requiring all of us to keep our kids home for extended periods was due to the lack of outcry against schools that forced children to stay home for extended periods causing them great pain. This is so that those responsible for that and those who did not stand up in protest including me unfortunately can feel the pain themselves. Just because someone chooses not to vaccinate does not give you the right to do that. Our children were never in any more danger due to a child in the class who was unvaccinated- yet folks with no medical knowledge whatsoever chose to torture pure innocent children. And by the way all my children are vaccinated.

    #1862307
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Mlhouse, thats the problem with using national statistics. The 2 if the largest measles hot spots,by zip code,were Boro Park and Williamsburg, 2 centers of large Jewish populations.

    #1862351
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “Our children were never in any more danger due to a child in the class who was unvaccinated- yet folks with no medical knowledge whatsoever chose to torture pure innocent children”
    That is a nice emotional plea but it’s not based in fact.

    #1862349
    huju
    Participant

    Vaccines have been around for about 200 years. Anti-Semitismn has been around for more than 2000 years. If a vaccine becomes available for COVID-19, some anti-vaxxers, including some Jewish anti-vaxxers, will refuse it. You can’t fix stupid.

    #1862442
    Milhouse
    Participant

    Mlhouse, thats the problem with using national statistics. The 2 if the largest measles hot spots,by zip code,were Boro Park and Williamsburg, 2 centers of large Jewish populations.

    And your point is? The fact remains that our community’s vaccination rate is higher than the national average, which means we have fewer anti-vaxxers than most communities do. The outbreaks in our communities did not happen because we had a low vaccination rate; they happened despite our rate being high. But maybe if our rate had been even higher they wouldn’t have happened. It’s impossible to know. There is no such thing as 100% safety, but we should try to get as close as we can.

    #1862522
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    I think the vaccination rates in our communities are inflated. V’hameven

    #1862528
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Right. By people documenting vaccines they didn’t have.

    #1862564
    SchnitzelBigot
    Participant

    Why are y’all picking on the anti-vaxxers when you believe in the same anti-science ideas when it come to denying climate change. And yes, the vaccination rates in our communtiy were almost definitely inflated because otherwise how would you explain the lack of herd immunity that happened last year?

    #1862588
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    SB- your post has a few holes in it, not sure if you are uninformed or having fun. Anti science isn’t the issue. Hanging on to a cause when there is inadequate scientific data to support it isn’t anti science. And herd immunity is about a percentage of a population being immune. When the non immune all reside on top of each other, it disrupts the effectiveness. Measels is also more contagious than most viruses. Calling something science that is based on observations is not really accurate.

    #1862589
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Shnitzel,
    Wait until climate change is documented for a hundred years. It takes time. I do not deny climate change. I drink coffee.

    #1862831
    Milhouse
    Participant

    “denying climate change”. Ah, yes. What used to be called “global warming” until they could no longer convince people that the world was in fact getting warmer because all their predictions failed . So they changed it to “change”, because of course climates are constantly changing so who could deny it?

    This “climate change” hoax is NOT science. It is the very opposite of science. It is witch-doctory, exactly like the anti-vaxx movement. It is all modeling, and we have just had a very graphic demonstration of what happens when you rely on models. We’ve just ruined thousands of lives because of a very wrong model that, if it had been produced by a private company, would have got them sued into bankruptcy.

    “Climate change” is a deliberate fraud, perpetrated by a small number of outright con men like Michael Mann and James Hansen, and anyone who still believes in it after all this time is either a fool or a willing accomplice. The motive is to destroy capitalism, which is why every “crisis” that comes along mysteriously has the same solution: more government power and more incursions on individual rights.

    Democrats are the anti-science party. They are the party of anti-vaxx, of astrology, of insisting that a man can become a woman by just saying so, of anti-nuclear, anti-fracking, anti-GMO, anti-pesticide, in fact anti-every aspect of human progress, anything that can improve the human lot, because they WANT to reduce us all to squalid misery so we will be dependent on them and give them power to look after us.

    #1862887
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Millhouse
    your post is funny

    “Democrats are the anti-science party. T”

    I thought Republicans were proud that they were the anti-science party. You yourself proudly state how you deny climate change (sorry just saying it isnt real doesn’t make it go away) “They are the party of anti-vaxx, ”
    Yo uelected a leader who dabbled in Vaccine autism conspiracies. (I’ll give you anti-GMO, though I’m not sure what you mean by Democrats being the party of astrology and you other example isn’t a science issue)

    Its ok to get worked up, I’d be ashamed too if my party’s nominee said “When I was growing up, autism wasn’t really a factor And now all of a sudden, it’s an epidemic … My theory is the shots.”

    “We’ve just ruined thousands of lives because of a very wrong model that,”
    what very wrong model?
    there are nearly 100,000 deaths and climbing in the US. and that is in spite of Social distancing. yes lives are made difficult, but many more were saved.

    ““global warming” until they could no longer convince people that the world was in fact getting warmer because all their predictions faile”
    I didn’t realize climate change was even controversial anymore. I thought even Republicans accept it but don’t believe it is caused by man. IS the average global temperature not rising?

    #1862920
    Milhouse
    Participant

    I thought Republicans were proud that they were the anti-science party.

    Where on earth could you possibly have got that idea? No Republican has EVER said such a thing. You are simply repeating Democrat LIES.

    Yes, Dems are the anti-vaxx party. 90% of anti-vaxxers are Dems. Trump is hardly the typical Republican. RFK Jr is absolutely the typical Democrat. The Democrat Party panders to the anti-vaxxers, the astrologists, etc. And how do you not understand what all those other items are? They’re all examples of rejecting science in favor of mysticism and magical thinking.

    what very wrong model?

    The model of that fraud Neil Ferguson from Imperial College. All the shutdowns around the world were based on that model. Or the model that the Minnesota governor had some students whip up for him in one weekend, on which basis he locked up the whole state. You can read all about it on Power Line.

    And no, there is no evidence that “average global temperature” (a meaningless and unmeasurable number) is rising, or that it’s higher than historical levels. Mann, Hansen, and the East Anglia crew have engaged in massive fraud, altering the historical record to make the past seem cooler than it was, so current temps can look hotter in comparison. “Hide the Decline.” That tells us everything we need to know. Read some articles on Watts Up With That.

    #1863000
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Where on earth could you possibly have got that idea? ”

    I spend most of my time interacting with Republicans. Your posts are no different post exhibit a ““Climate change” is a deliberate fraud, perpetrated by a small number of outright con men”

    “Trump is hardly the typical Republican”
    This statement may have been true 5 years ago. Today you can’t just dismiss him as not being typical. He represents your party (as much as you may not like that) , those who don’t support him (eg Lincoln Project) are labeled “Rinos”*

    “You can read all about it on Power Line.”
    I dont have to. I saw first hand how close the hospital system came to breaking, as mentioned elsewhere it some ways it did.

    “Read some articles on Watts Up With That.”
    sure will thanks

    #1863382
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    Climate change is not a scientific discovery, it is a mathematical one. Is that what you meant? Either way, the study of it has been going on since before you were born. The more data we get, the clearer the picture becomes. It is not a pretty picture. [It does not concern me much.] Do you think the earth is cooling? Why not?

    #1863469
    Milhouse
    Participant

    n0m, what on earth are you talking about? Do you have any idea?

    #1863475
    Milhouse
    Participant

    No Republican, ever, has said that the Republicans are an anti-science party, let alone said it proudly. You’re just making that up.

    Trump is still not a typical Republican and never will be. Republicans like him because he’s implementing mostly Republican policies, and he’s standing up to the Democrats, but most Republicans are not like him, and his quirks, especially from the past when he was a Democrat, do not reflect on the party.

    And “climate change”, formerly “global warming” and before that “the greenhouse effect” is a huge hoax. Again, the amount of exposed fraud is enough to show that the whole thing is a scam. If it were real then its chief proponents wouldn’t be committing all these frauds.

    And you asked about the ridiculous modeling goofs. I explained it to you, and informed you that if you want to know about the Minnesota case look at Power Line. If you don’t want to look don’t, but don’t pretend you know anything about the subject.

    And no, the hospitals were NOT overwhelmed, not even in NY. The Javits and the Comfort prove that. And in the rest of the country the hospitals and the whole medical sector has been practically destroyed by the stupid restrictions. There was no curve to flatten.

    #1863482
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Milhouse – I find you so confusing (inconsistent?)
    You seem so rational and almost everything you say makes so much sense and is rational. But then you throw in that the hospitals in NY were NOT overwhelmed? And the empty temp hospitals is your proof? I think you misunderstand what overwhelmed means. If a mom has 10 well behaved children, and another has 4 handicapped children does that smaller group mean less work? I don’t know what decision was made about who was admitted where, but when an ICU unit is usually filled with (I’m making up the numbers) 20 patients and 8 are critical, and another floor is set up for stable patients and has a staff used to caring for 40 regular beds it becomes overwhelming and unmanagable to have the ICU unit suddenly filled with 18 out of 20 critical, unstable, crashing and coding, reequiring hands on care simultaneously and back to back, and the usually stable floor fill up suddenly with critical patients but with the same staff and equipment they always have. And it wasn’t just for a week. And there were too many bodies for the morgues. Correct, it wasn’t every or even most hospitals, but it was many. I am not sure why you would believe otherwise.

    Global warming-climate change etc may be a hoax, or just a fake, but it is certainly easy to find actual information to support that. This hospital claim you make is surprising.

    #1863503
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “No Republican, ever, has said that the Republicans are an anti-science party
    No not literally in those words.

    “Trump is still not a typical Republican and never will be. ….t, do not reflect on the party.”

    Semantics. Tes he reflects on your party. you cant elect (and support a candidate and say ” he isnt really one of us”

    “And no, the hospitals were NOT overwhelmed, not even in NY.”
    they were.

    This was discussed on another thread. doctors did not have time to tend to all coding patients. Hence the “mandatory DNRs”
    I can tell you first hand I did not have enough dialysis machines for all the patients that needed them I was forced to choose who gets dialysis and who doesn’t (there was simpley not enough machines and nurses for everyone) IT was very overwhelming. Critically ill patients were manged in hallways. You are simply wrong Look at posts from other physicians. I get it if you dont believe me. Look at Ellie Bennet’s post. Ditchek talk to any NYC doctor

    you cant just dismiss facts that don’t fit your narrative. This is becoming a pattern with you.
    At least with global warming yo u have “evidence” on your side fine so most scientists accept it but some hack blogs disregard it for such erudite reasons as you detailed. I can live with that. . and the side the scientists support is the “anti-science party” got it, makes sense.

    but hospitals not being overwhelmed? Trump not reflecting the Republican party
    amazing stuff

    #1863510
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    syag
    “but it is certainly easy to find actual information to support that. ”

    It is easy to find information to support any claim you want. There are tons of online posts claiming (falsely) that hospitals are empty there are a whole group of video labeled #filmyourhospitla showing calm outside the hospital as if that somehow shows that inside it is business as usual.

    Of course just becasue you find support for a claim, doesn’t make it so, whether for (or against) global warming or whether hospitals were overwhelmed.

    #1863519
    bk613
    Participant

    “And no, the hospitals were NOT overwhelmed, not even in NY. The Javits and the Comfort prove that. And in the rest of the country the hospitals and the whole medical sector has been practically destroyed by the stupid restrictions. There was no curve to flatten.”

    What a flat out disgusting lie. Shame on you. Hospitals in NY had beds in every possible place imaginable. Some had to install more piping for oxygen because they were putting critical patients in random places not normally meant for patient care. Several had to bring in refrigerated trucks to store the overwhelming numbers of dead, and trust me, those trucks were full. Speak to someone who actually worked in a healthcare these past few months before you spew idiocy on the internet.

    #1863655
    charliehall
    Participant

    The lower fertility lie is one that idiot Muslim fanatics have been pushing about the polio vaccine.

    In fact, NOT getting the Mumps vaccine can make a boy sterile.

    #1863656
    charliehall
    Participant

    “fix stupid”

    Darwin may fix stupid.

    #1863695
    Milhouse
    Participant

    If you were overwhelmed why didn’t you send patients to the Javits or the Comfort? That’s what they were supposedly there for. But using them wouldn’t help create the crisis that the governor wanted so he could cry about how much the rest of the country owed him.

    #1863717
    2scents
    Participant

    “ Speak to someone who actually worked in a healthcare these past few months before you spew idiocy on the internet.”

    This is a someone in healthcare, and while there was ahort period of hospitals being stretched a bit, especially those with temporary covid ICUs and in hot zones, the hospital as a whole was not overwhelmed.

    The healthcare industry managed this really well and a number if hospitals were way below baseline capacity at all times!

    #1863725
    Health
    Participant

    Millhouse -“If you were overwhelmed why didn’t you send patients to the Javits or the Comfort? That’s what they were supposedly there for. But using them wouldn’t help create the crisis that the governor wanted so he could cry about how much the rest of the country owed him.”

    Another mistake. The Feds didn’t allow Covid pts.
    They thought by sending those ships, the hospitals could focus on Covid pts.
    It would have made sense, but the normal pts. number declimbed.

    #1863827
    Joseph
    Participant

    Health: The ended up allowing COVID patients on the ship, even though the original plan was not to. I believe Javits all along accepted COVID patients.

    #1863829
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “If you were overwhelmed why didn’t you send patients to the Javits or the Comfort? ”

    1. We did send some to comfort
    2. As health pointed out They weren’t accepting Covid patients at first so the bulk of patients that were overwhelming the hospital couldn’t even be off loaded
    3. By the time the comfort allowed Covid pts the worst was over. While waiting pts had been transferred upstate to ease the pressure (unfortunately without always notifying the family)

    #1863871
    Joseph
    Participant

    The hospitals certainly became very busy but in New York they never ran out of space and rejected patients like they did in Italy and Spain.

    #1863911
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “The hospitals certainly became very busy but in New York they never ran out of space”

    true thanks to social distancing

    #1863935
    bk613
    Participant

    “while there was ahort period of hospitals being stretched a bit, especially those with temporary covid ICUs”

    I consider having temporary ICU’s and managing high acuity patient’s in hallways to be overwhelmed. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
    I agree that the healthcare system quickly adapted and bh was able to handle the situation. But I am unaware of a single NYC hospital that was “way below baseline capacity at all times!” If you can share the names of these hospitals that would be great.

    #1863953
    huju
    Participant

    Charliehall is right: evolution does fix stupid.

    #1863990
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    Paul Broun (R-GA) was the poster boy for congressional anti-science. In general anti-science appears to be equal across all groups of people. With the current virus, it appears that Democrats are more scientific, while Republicans are more political. Which probably has to do with the current administration. [As well as the other two this century. But nobody remembers their past mistakes anymore.]

    #1864084
    thetruthiseek
    Participant

    charliehall go to the cdc website it says mumps is NOT KNOWN TO CAUSE INFERTILITY stop spreading lies and fear.

    #1864108
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Thetruth,
    He did not say that it is known. Please do not require him to get to graphic. It is rare, but considered possible. Does this infer that you find the CDC reliable?

    #1864141
    Health
    Participant

    thetruthiseek -“charliehall go to the cdc website it says mumps is NOT KNOWN TO CAUSE INFERTILITY stop spreading lies and fear.”

    This is one of the Few times that I agree with Charlie.
    I don’t think Anti-vaxxers are interested in TRUTH.
    While the CDC Does write that, that’s NOT the Whole Story!

    Edited- TMI

    #1864169
    thetruthiseek
    Participant

    no i do not find cdc reliable. however, if one is arguing for vaccinations per the instructions of the cdc, he should not get hypocritical and stick with his sources.

    #1864188
    Health
    Participant

    thetruthiseek -“however, if one is arguing for vaccinations per the instructions of the cdc, he should not get hypocritical and stick with his sources.”

    Charlie -“In fact, NOT getting the Mumps vaccine can make a boy sterile.”
    He never mentioned the CDC. Why put words in his mouth to Further your Agenda?!?

    From EuropePDC:
    “12 patients remained at least subfertile (60%), 5 of them after bilateral mumps orchitis, 3 patients were almost infertile after bilateral mumps orchitis.”

    Mods is THAT Better?

    #1864232
    Milhouse
    Participant

    n0m, now I know you’re a troll. In fact you’re a Democrat fraud. Paul Broun is a medical doctor, and is not in any way anti-science. He has not taken one anti-science policy position. But you Democrats are obsessed with evolution, which is your religion. You demand that everyone bow to the ghost of Darwin and acknowledge with their lips and in their hearts that we are descended from monkeys, or else they are heretics. That has nothing to do with science. What a person believes about historical events that either did or didn’t happen thousands of years ago has no effect on any policy, and does not reflect on their attitude to science. On every single policy issue that has to do with science, it is the Democrats who take the mystical position, rejecting all evidence and all rationality. And you are one of them.

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