October 25, 2018 10:38 am at 10:38 am #1610378
What can be done to halt this insanity once and for all?
edited (it was either that or delete)October 25, 2018 11:41 am at 11:41 am #1610666
Tell them to look at Rav Yair Hoffman’s article of how many averos they violate fot their own selfishness.October 25, 2018 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #1610704
Why was my headline any different then a previous writets headline “charedi murderer” ??October 25, 2018 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1610681
Nothing. Because the people who can do anything are unwilling to act. And the people people who are willing to act, are unable to help.
As long as Yeshivas and Bais Yaakovs continue to allow disease-ridden un-immunized kids in the building under “religious exemption” were are all in deep trouble.
I’m also a little curious why so many frum people are anti-vaccine. The only professional medical knowledge frum people have should come from a doctor, who will invariably push for immunization. Other knowledge can only come from the Internet. So it’s a good Shibboiles, if someone refuses to vaccinate, they clearly have Internet and shouldn’t be allowed into Yeshiva.October 25, 2018 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #1610760
Yserbius123 – Thank you for your enlightening posts. You bring up several very important points:
1. You have a strong dislike of chareidim
2. You have little actual knowledge of how they make decisions
3. You are so intent in degrading and insulting them that you are willing to sound like a fool while doing so. Must be important to you.
Definitely food for thought.October 25, 2018 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1611046
Make a rule against selling organic food to anyone whose children are not vaccinated.October 25, 2018 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1611116
Avram in MDParticipant
Civility, listening, empathetic communication, and evidence-based persuasion rather than fear tactics and threats.
Anti-vaxxers are not selfish. They love their children more than anyone else does, fear for their safety more than anyone else does, and want to do what is best for them, no matter what anyone else says. And this is exactly what they are supposed to be doing as parents. We are living in a generation where trust has completely broken down. Conservatives don’t trust the government, and think doctors are tools of the government. Liberals don’t trust Big Pharma, and think that doctors are Big Pharma’s drug dealers. Both feel that these big, scary entities do not have their children’s best interests at heart. And when a harried doctor steps into the exam room and explodes at a parent who spent 45 minutes in the waiting room before raising a concern about a vaccine, or the aggressive vaccine schedule, and gives no reassurance, no information, and does not acknowledge the fear that is behind the concern, and instead threatens to refuse care to the child, how is that going to help change minds?October 25, 2018 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1611122
We don’t need to change their minds. We only need to vaccinate their children.October 25, 2018 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1611134
Avram in MDParticipant
“We don’t need to change their minds. We only need to vaccinate their children.”
Can’t do the latter without the former.October 25, 2018 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1611136
What do you expect at a time when chiropractors, applied kinesiologists, energy healers, ect.., are viewed by large segments of the tzibur as legitimate members of the medical community.
Here is the recipe:
1) Good use of the tools of influence (marketing / PR)
2) A prevailing “anti-establishment” bias (overall, not specific to our community)
Mix the above and serveOctober 25, 2018 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1611138
I’m a definite vaxxer. However it seems to me that the anti-vaxxers are only putting their own children or themselves at risk. If so, how are they different from over-eaters that cause themselves sickness and hospitalizations and early death, yet no one suggests sanctioning them? Why can we not leave people to make their own life decisions? Is this a communist state?October 25, 2018 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1611151
Herd immunity. Also, people should not be allowed to endanger their children. People with dumb parents have as much right to live as anyone else.October 25, 2018 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1611159
Avram, you’re assuming that brute force won’t work. Maybe it will.October 25, 2018 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1611195
People should make a mental note about going into a public mikva. One never knows who is a vaxxer and who is anti vaxxer. Same goes for flying on a plane or being in a confined area with lots of people , like a train , bus etc.October 25, 2018 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #1611209
Maybe children over 5 should be allowed to decide to be vaccinated on their own.October 25, 2018 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #1611210
And when a harried doctor steps into the exam room and explodes at a parent who spent 45 minutes in the waiting room before raising a concern about a vaccine, or the aggressive vaccine schedule, and gives no reassurance, no information, and does not acknowledge the fear that is behind the concern, and instead threatens to refuse care to the child, how is that going to help change minds?
Avrum – I don’t believe your example really happens, and if it does, it doesn’t happen often enough to be valid complaint against the doctors/vaxxers. If someone has an idiot doctor and they haven’t figured it out or switched, it isn’t relevant on a community level.October 25, 2018 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1611220
There are Yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs that allow un-immunized kids into class. I don’t have the number, I doubt that they are the majority of schools, but I personally know of several. Those principals are putting all the kids at risk. And that doesn’t even get to the risks that they are putting any pregnant or nursing woman
who may come in contact with a preventable illness like measles.October 25, 2018 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1611228
i just posted a comment. where did it vanish to? i clicked on submit and it just vanished!!!October 25, 2018 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1611227
A person asked The previous Bobover Rav Rabbi Naftali zvi z”l what to do with his wife that she got it into her head from health nuts etc. etc. something against immunizations and it is threatening to ruin the happiness of their marriage, what should he do. His answer was: Are you going to let your marriage be ruined over this??? She doesnt want immunizations is nisht. Move on.October 25, 2018 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #1611241
A person asked The previous Bobover Rav Rabbi Naftali zvi z”l what to do with his wife that she got it into her head from health nuts etc. etc. something against immunizations and it is threatening to ruin the happiness of their marriage, what should he do. His answer was: Are you going to let your marriage be ruined over this??? She doesnt want immunizations is nisht. Move on.
Would the rebbe have replied the same if thr wife decided to stop shaving her head or deded to paint her nails etc.?November 4, 2018 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #1616757
Leibidik Yankel, vaccines don’t have a 100% effective rate. I wouldn’t care about anti-vaxxers if they did.
But there’s something called herd immunity, which means that at least 95% of the population needs to be vaccinated for a disease to be eradicated.
I remember getting the flu shot last year and still getting the flu. That’s because it doesn’t work all the time. Yet I got it again this year because I’m not stupid. I know that just because it doesn’t work once doesn’t mean they don’t work.
The only people who should not be vaccinated are babies that are too young and people for whom it poses health risks. If you use Judaism for a “religious exemption”, you are turning it into a cult. Venishmartem Me’od Lenafshosechem.
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