Apology

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  • #604776
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I’ve been giving some thought to my behavior on these boards, specifically with regard to my self-deprecatory remarks.

    I did not fully understand how upsetting this can be to some people on the boards. I thank the person who emailed me privately and took great care to explain it to me while still acknowledging and my feelings and treating me with respect.

    I know that I can’t suddenly change my attitude about myself. I don’t have a magical switch in my head which will instantly cause me to like myself or feel good about myself. But I can try and control how I express that self-hatred to everyone else and I can try to understand how expressing it in vile terms to everyone else can be disturbing to them.

    As such, I will, in the future, attempt to keep my comments regarding myself neutral. If I hurt or disturbed any of you, I humbly ask your apology. If you can find it in your heart to do so, I thank you. If you cannot, I certainly understand and hope that, over time, I can convince you to change your mind.

    Thank you for your time and understanding.

    The Wolf

    #895624
    shlishi
    Member

    Thank you. I appreciate your new approach.

    One thing I never understood was even while you made those self-deprecatory remarks here, you never did so at your own site. That made it seem contrived, since if it were sincere why the difference between here and there?

    #895625
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    That made it seem contrived, since if it were sincere why the difference between here and there?

    You’ll notice that I barely blog at my site anymore. I think the two might be related. When I’m feeling down, I find that I don’t have the desire or energy to blog at my site, so at the times that I’m most likely to make such remarks, I’m not blogging at my site anyway.

    The Wolf

    #895626
    oomis
    Participant

    I actually thought your self-deprecation was deliberate sarcasm. I didn’t get the sense that you actually FEEl that way about yourself. So if you do – I think you are an intelligent, witty, and earnest poster, and have nothing to be embarrassed about.

    #895627
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Wow…..I love how people here publisize their apologies!

    #895628
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wow…..I love how people here publisize their apologies!

    Considering the fact that the people wronged are the readers of this board and, with a few exceptions, I don’t have the ability to email them privately and apologize, can you please tell me how I could have apologized in a different (less public) manner?

    The Wolf

    #895629
    shlishi
    Member

    I accept your response, but am curious why when you are feeling down you don’t feel like posting on your site, but you do feel like posting here at such times?

    #895630
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Maybe his site is different where as you cant just have conversations with random ppl across the globe…idk I have no idea what his site is!

    #895631
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I accept your response, but am curious why when you are feeling down you don’t feel like posting on your site, but you do feel like posting here at such times?

    Good question. I don’t know if I have an answer. Perhaps because here I don’t have to come up with a post — I can just react to others? That might be it, but I can’t say for sure. Sorry.

    The Wolf

    #895632
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    And just to clarify… I’m not changing my opinion on any of the matters that we usually debate here. If you hated/loved my opinions, you’re still going to hate/love them. I’m not apologizing for any of my opinions, just the way I express my feelings about myself.

    The Wolf

    #895633
    Curiosity
    Participant

    This apology confuses me so much. I always thought u were kidding.

    #895634
    aurora77
    Participant

    Hello WolfishMusings,

    I have read many a funny, kind-hearted, and caring post from you to others. I hope you may come to view yourself more kindly 🙂

    #895635
    Englishman
    Member

    Curiosity and oomis1105: If you believe Wolf was kidding or being sarcastic when he appended those remarks to many of his comments, think of the apology this way: He is sorry for the sarcasm or poor humor.

    #895636
    Mammele
    Participant

    Apology accepted. Hope I wasn’t too harsh on you.

    I’m going to take the liberty and ask you one BIG favor. Can you please write down privately (or at least think of) one wholly positive thing you did that day every night?

    Your keeping your negativity to yourself is a nice gesture to all of us, but you have to make hishtadlus to actually be comfortable with yourself for your own sake.

    #895637
    on the ball
    Participant

    Apology for the insincere self-deprecation duly accepted.

    #895638
    wanderingchana
    Participant

    Wolf, sometimes I understand how sarcasm can help diffuse some of the anger I know I feel when I read about people doing things that fly in the face of Torah, but it is often painful for me to read your more biting comments about yourself. As was mentioned above, you’re not allowed to speak loshon hara about yourself. We manufacture enough tsouris on our own as a communtity – please don’t add to it 🙁

    #895639
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    This apology confuses me so much. I always thought u were kidding.

    I’ve said on *numerous* occassions that I meant what I said and that if I was trying to be funny you’d know it.

    Apology for the insincere self-deprecation duly accepted.

    As I said, I didn’t expect to appease everyone. I hope over time you’ll actually come to forgive me, and, if not, I’m at a loss as to what else to do. If you have any suggestions, I’m open to them (within reason, of course).

    I’m going to take the liberty and ask you one BIG favor. Can you please write down privately (or at least think of) one wholly positive thing you did that day every night?

    I might. I’ll think about it.

    As was mentioned above, you’re not allowed to speak loshon hara about yourself. We manufacture enough tsouris on our own as a communtity – please don’t add to it 🙁

    Well, that’s the point here, isn’t it — to apologize for having done so in the past and to announce that I will try to restrain myself in the future.

    The Wolf

    #895640
    Sam2
    Participant

    I also thought that it was just your form of satire. In fact, you can’t honestly believe that about yourself. I still think your self-depracating posts are meant to be satirical.

    #895641
    oomis
    Participant

    I’m with sam2. I thought it was satirical writing. Especially when you said obnoxious things about yourself for asking your family members how they were.

    #895642
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I thought it was satirical writing. Especially when you said obnoxious things about yourself for asking your family members how they were.

    Nope. That was me internalizing some of the extreme positions posited here. I probably shouldn’t do that anymore.

    The Wolf

    #895643
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I’m with Oomis and Sam2. But more than satirical humor, I was sure that the satire was not of what you thought of yourself but rather poking fun at the comments you expected from the ultra wingers out there.

    #895644
    zalman
    Participant

    you sound depressed. consider therapy.

    #895645
    WIY
    Member

    Wolf

    You were obviously being satirical like your talking during leining (as you are a baal koreh) talking to girls (your family) and similar cases. I really dont understand your apology and I think its another one of your “funny” jokes.

    #895646
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    You were obviously being satirical like your talking during leining (as you are a baal koreh)

    Yes, I grant you that that was satirical. That’s also the oldest of my self-criticisms here on the boards, well before I began being seriously self-critical.

    talking to girls (your family)

    No, I meant that seriously. Like I said, I began internalizing some of the more extreme elements of the board’s population and their positions and, perhaps, even began carrying them too far myself.

    I really dont understand your apology and I think its another one of your “funny” jokes.

    You’re entitled to think that. You’re also entitled to withhold your acceptance of same. I only hope that one day I can convince you to change your mind.

    I’ll say this much for myself — I do have a very good sense of humor. If I’m trying to be funny, it will be unambiguously so.

    you sound depressed. consider therapy.

    You might be right, but I’m not considering therapy for personal reasons.

    The Wolf

    #895647
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    I so thought that you were joking in all those funny comments about yourself. And I still do!

    SiDi™

    #895648
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    And I still do!

    And therefore I’ll repeat:

    You’re entitled to think that. You’re also entitled to withhold your acceptance of same. I only hope that one day I can convince you to change your mind.

    The Wolf

    #895649
    oomis
    Participant

    Nope. That was me internalizing some of the extreme positions posited here. I probably shouldn’t do that anymore.”

    And therein lies the satire.

    #895650
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    It didn’t sound like you were internalizing them, you are way too smart for that. Satirical in regard to them sounds more like it.

    #895651
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Well, I can only say it again — I was being genuine, as I am with this apology. If you choose not to believe me, I don’t know what else I can say to change that and will have to just accept the fact that that’s how you feel.

    Nonetheless, regardless of how you feel, whether you believe me or not, I will be making every effort to keep my comments about myself neutral.

    The Wolf

    #895652
    Health
    Participant

    Mammele -“I’m going to take the liberty and ask you one BIG favor. Can you please write down privately (or at least think of) one wholly positive thing you did that day every night?

    Your keeping your negativity to yourself is a nice gesture to all of us, but you have to make hishtadlus to actually be comfortable with yourself for your own sake.”

    Who are you to ask him to do anything? He has a right to think negative about himself. Perhaps thinking bad about oneself is Not a good idea, but I already posted he should seek therapy.

    You are Not his therapist!

    #895653
    Poster
    Member

    WolfishMusings, honestly what I find interesting is that you always manage to post on how amazing your marriage is, how you and your wife love each other etc… and how good you are to your kids and vs versa. I always found it wierd how someone with so much love in life can think so lowly of themself.

    If everyone around you is so in love with you, certainly without even knowing you, there must be something wonderful to love.

    #895654
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    If everyone around you is so in love with you, certainly without even knowing you, there must be something wonderful to love.

    It’s funny you mention that, because my wife tells me the same thing. I don’t always believer her, of course, but she says it just the same. 🙂

    The Wolf

    #895655
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Who are you to ask him to do anything? He has a right to think negative about himself. Perhaps thinking bad about oneself is Not a good idea, but I already posted he should seek therapy.

    You are Not his therapist!

    There’s nothing wrong with posting helpful advice which I am free to accept or reject.

    The Wolf

    #895656
    iced
    Member

    Perhaps that is your wife posting?

    #895657
    Mammele
    Participant

    Health,

    I am not his therapist, but I do have some common sense.

    YOU can tell him what to do, i.e. seek therapy, which I’m not going to disagree with, if his opinion about himself is really so low — I’m not sure he’s not exaggerating it a bit.

    However, I know he read your comment already — which I doubt he’ll follow in any case. (You could have been a bit more delicate IMHO, though I don’t know if it would have made a difference.) He didn’t rush to tell you he’ll go ahead with it, although he can do so and chose to keep it private.

    I feel I’m allowed to add my two cents of something I think might be helpful with or without therapy.

    He’s still free to do as he pleases. If he tries it and doesn’t gain enough from it, he can realize he’s in far too deep and seek therapy then. It was basically a suggestion which I doubt any therapist would disagree with or consider harmful.

    I know you are very anti-meddling and believe in leaving everything for the real pros. Problem is many of us don’t seek it out for various reasons. If I was confident he’s planning on therapy I would have shut up. It didn’t seem that way to me.

    If you propose a CR intervention, I will go along with it, though it has to be done with proper, PROFESSIONAL guidance.

    And Wolfish, I know you’re in the room, hope I didn’t offend you. I felt I needed to defend myself and you are mature enough to “listen in”.

    #895658
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    And Wolfish, I know you’re in the room, hope I didn’t offend you. I felt I needed to defend myself and you are mature enough to “listen in”.

    No offense taken. I didn’t take offense at Health’s suggestion either.

    The Wolf

    #895659
    Health
    Participant

    Mammele -“I am not his therapist, but I do have some common sense.

    YOU can tell him what to do, i.e. seek therapy, which I’m not going to disagree with, if his opinion about himself is really so low — I’m not sure he’s not exaggerating it a bit.”

    Telling s/o to go for help is Not the same thing as saying -Oh this idea will help you.

    “I feel I’m allowed to add my two cents of something I think might be helpful with or without therapy.

    He’s still free to do as he pleases. If he tries it and doesn’t gain enough from it, he can realize he’s in far too deep and seek therapy then. It was basically a suggestion which I doubt any therapist would disagree with or consider harmful.

    I know you are very anti-meddling and believe in leaving everything for the real pros. Problem is many of us don’t seek it out for various reasons. If I was confident he’s planning on therapy I would have shut up. It didn’t seem that way to me.”

    See this is your mistakes. First of all, why does e/o who sees something wrong in s/o else have to correct them?

    Second, even if your Eitza is a good one -it can only have a Not good outcome. People only (usually) seek help when they hit rock bottom. So if your Eitza is partially effective, all it will do is delay or totally exclude him from seeking mental help. People who have so low self-esteem need professional help. It’s like putting a band-aid on a major wound. The wound needs professional intervention -covering it up – just helps you pretend it’s not something that needs attention! And yes, it made my job much harder. I once couldn’t understand why a guy’s finger wouldn’t stop bleeding -it was such a small wound. The answer came because he dumped a lot of liquid bandage on it. Products like New Skin are very effective for what they are made to do. They don’t stop bleeding. So all my pressure on the wound wasn’t working because there was this hard goop between the pressure and the bleeding site. So to stop the bleeding I had to put some anti-bleeding chemical on it.

    Sometimes little things do more harm than good.

    #895660
    Mammele
    Participant

    I think your analogy is at least a little off base.

    I’ll (respectfully) agree to disagree. You mentioned before you’re not a mental health specialist. If anybody here is please feel free to chime in.

    #895661
    computer777
    Member

    Someone who is posting on this thread very clearly has a personality disorder. I always thought so, but some posts on this thread make it so clear.

    (It’s not wolf.)

    #895662
    2scents
    Participant

    Wolf,

    Although i strongly disagree on some of the things you right. I commend you for coming clean.

    I (and others) could not stand the posts in which you were mocking yourself, even those in which you were just trying to be funny.

    Anyways, I respect you for your level head thinking (posting).

    Gut Shabbos!

    #895663
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Thank you for the kind words, 2scents.

    The Wolf

    #895664
    The Frumguy
    Participant

    You’re still one of the most entertaining, humorous posters in The Coffee Room.

    #895665
    Mammele
    Participant

    Wolfish,

    Thank you. I must have missed your earlier post where you kindly allowed me to offer unsolicited advice. If I would have noticed it earlier I probably wouldn’t have felt the need to respond to Health.

    Thanks again & good shabbos.

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