Apostates in Trump’s orbit

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  • #1778826

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Larry Kudlow, director of the National Economic Council, was born Jewish but converted to Catholicism.

    Jay Sekulow, one of Trump’s personal lawyers, was born Jewish but describes himself as a Messianic Jew.

    Wayne Allyn Root, the conspiracy theorist who said Israelis love Trump like he’s the King of Israel and the second coming of G-d, is an evangelical Christian who says he’s Jewish by birth.

    Larry Klayman, founder of various right-wing advocacy organizations and Trump supporter, was born Jewish, but describes himself as both a Christian and a Jew.

    #1778984

    And your point is?

    #1779128

    philosopher
    Participant

    I don’t believe they are all halachikaly Jewish. Today many people who are partly descendents of Jews, but not necessarily Jewish, think they are Jewish or are considered Jewish by secular society.

    #1779158

    Avi K
    Participant

    With all of the antisemites in the DP you’re worried about two or three (I have found no info on Root’s roots) guys who were taken in by missionaries? What about Orthodox Jews Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump? What about conservative activist Nachama Soloveichik (granddaughter of Rav Aharon)? What about all of the Orthodox Jews in the Republic Jewish Caucus and the Federalist Society?

    #1779192

    akuperma
    Participant

    Given the historically unprecedented integration of American Jews, and the mass assimilation over the past few centuries, any and all American politicians are likely to have supporters who are Orthodox Jews, and who are religiously non-Jewish descendants of Jews (some of are, or are not, halachically Jewish). Some are Republicans and some are Democrats (not to mention that one of the leading Democratic candidates to oppose Trump is a well known heretic who is almost certainly Jewish according to halacha).

    #1779209

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    From Wikipedia

    Larry Kudlow’s mother’s name was Ruth Grodnick
    Jay Sekulow Mothers name Natalie Wortman

    #1779434

    huju
    Participant

    So the problem with Trump is, not enough frum Jews? Too many otd Jews? I think the trouble with Trump is that he’s lazy, uneducated, arrogant, insecure, and a lying liar. All the rest is commentary.

    #1779675

    seichel yashar
    Participant

    Huju,
    I’m glad I can clarify this for you; apparently you’re getting your information from the fake news networks. That’s why your opinion of the president has no correlation to reality. Its not based on facts. It’s based on hatred spewed by a group of evil people who hate both this country and everything moral and good. President Trump is one of the greatest things to happen to this country.
    I’m glad I was able to straighten things up for you.

    #1779975

    “President Trump is one of the greatest things to happen to this country.”

    Let me just tweak that – President Trump, though a moron with poor social skills and little self control, is one of the greatest things to happen to this country.

    🙂

    #1780233

    lakewhut
    Participant

    Huju he’s a Wharton graduate. So don’t play the uneducated card if you don’t have a similar one. If he was lazy, he wouldn’t have run a hard fought presidential campaign.

    #1780296

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    syag, I want to add something, who thinks he knows everything as interpreted by the Ben Ish Chai איש בער לא ידע a man of emptiness who does not know it, and וכסיל לא יבין את זאת and a fool who does not understand it.

    #1780792

    philosopher
    Participant

    I can’t understand, except if people love illegal immigrants, how Jews do not like Trump. He’s pro-Israel, has pardoned Rubashkin and is in general a friend of non-liberal Jews ( I myself am no friend of liberal Jews with the meaning of what “liberalism” stands for these days. Did he do and say immoral things before he came into office? Yes he did and that’s why I didn’t vote for him. However as things stand today he is a decent person and great president. I agree with all his policies except for international trade tax. The only thing I’m unsure of is what his real “peace plan” in the Mideast will be. As things stand now I’d totally vote for him … and I’ve never voted in any presidential elections but time may be the first.

    #1780868

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Lakewhut

    My disdain for Trump is no secret, but this comment is not just about him.

    “Huju he’s a Wharton graduate. So don’t play the uneducated card if you don’t have a similar one”

    I am a Wharton graduate, as are two of my children. My father did not buy my way in, and I did not buy my children’s admission.
    Similar to Legacy student George W Bush at Yale, legacy and donor admittees receive what are called Gentlemen’s ‘C’s and a diploma. They cut many classes and professors are not allowed to give them failing grades.
    Donald Trump did his early college days at Fordham as a commuter and then daddy bought his way into Wharton as a transfer student. He did not gain admission through his high school transcript, SAT and Achievement test scores.

    Students such as Trump and GW Bush cheapen the value of an Ivy League diploma and are resented by other students who earned their own admission. Compare this to the current scandal of buying your way into college with fake sports achievements. There are trials going on right now to convict parents and coaches,

    #1780872

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Philosopher, if you think you know everything like our president, you don’t ask advice from everyone and you end up making mistakes. For this reasoh the mishna says at the end of Kidushin that the best of the doctors belong in the gehinom. The Beis Hilel only revealed their view after hearing from the Beis Shamai because of their great humility in order to arrive to the truth.

    #1780883

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Philosoper, as your name indicates, look Melachim (1,12) what happened when Rechavom, son of King Solomon, set aside the advice of the elders and listened to the young thereby ending up in the division of his kngdom.

    #1780885

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Our presidenr has endandered the world by breaking up treaties and relationships.

    #1780968

    huju
    Participant

    To lakewhut: Yes, Trump has a Wharton degree, but he clearly does not have a Wharton education. No one at Wharton thinks “trade wars are easy to win,” or that “tax cuts pay for themselves”. There are lots of things money can buy, including Ivy League degrees, but only genuine, honest work can get you an education, Ivy League or otherwise. My undergraduate education is from the University of Wisconsin – not Ivy, but not too shabby.

    As for fake news, the fakest news these days is anything that Trump says about nearly anything. Unfortunately, you and I cannot have a sensible discussion since we do not agree on the facts.

    #1781123

    philosopher
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, at age 45 I don’t consider myself young. And though I do ask advice from a Rebbe on issues I’m unsure about, voting for a president is certainly not my top priority to discuss with a posek. In addition, I’ve seen people who are considered great leaders in our generation endorsing politicians who support and have advanced immorality that is rampant in today’s society. I think THEY should discuss with other poskim whom to vote for.

    #1781130

    philosopher
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, besides I don’t get exactly whose “advice of the elders” you want me to follow… Maybe the one who supported Hillary the crook when she was running for president? Or other ones who support immorality pushing politicians?

    In any case, I’m sure there will be a few Rabbonim supporting Trump, but most Rabbonim won’t give their support for any presidential candidate, certainly not the Rabbonim, I mean the elders, I listen to.

    That may not be such good news for you who would love to see a kol korah banning voting for Trump. Sorry to dissapoint you but I can guarantee you that that will not be happpening. My elders, im not sure about yours, are not advising us regarding whom we should vote for in the presidential elections.

    #1781186

    charliehall
    Participant

    Had Barack Obama welcomed so many apostates into the White House we would be up in arms. Instead he had a budget director, chief of staff, and treasury secretary who was an actual frum Jew.

    #1781187

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Philosopher, you are no phioosopher when you advocate Trump pushing out experienced Matis, Secretary of Defense and listening to Stephen Miller on immigrarion. We are befriending our enemies and alianating our alies. The tax cuts created a trillion dollar yearly deficits. He puts the world including Israel in danger by breaking nuclear treaties with Iran and Russia.

    #1781243

    philosopher
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, a philosopher doesn’t necessarily have to agree with your opinion…i am pro tax cuts 100%. Inflated tax rates is actual stealing. In Judasim where tzedaka is one of the most important concepts, there’s only a 10% requirement to give tzedakah, stealing from people %40-50 is disgusting and immoral. You can’t steal from others to give to others. The answer to deficits is not more draining of others rightful income- it is stopping the OVERspending of the US government. And stopping the ridiculous pending means stopping the influx of migrants who are draining our economy by flooding emergency rooms, getting government aid and their kids getting free education. The income from their taxes are a far cry from what the government spends for them. How exactly is Trump alienating our friends by alienating Iran? Do you consider Iran our friend?
    Trump is not breaking nuclear treaties with Iran, the opposite is true. Iran has threatened to increase it’s allowed production of uranium and to use it for purposes other than what they are allowed to.
    And besides, I don’t get you at all regarding Iran which has threatened to c”v annihilate Israel, the have made their intentions clear numerous times. And they are a huge threat now with their presence in Syria.

    #1781241

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Philosopher, you misunderstood listening to the elders. I wasn’t talking about you but our president.

    #1781396

    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Charliehall
    I really don’t know why you think we would be up in arms.
    Nor do I know which chief of staff was a “frum jew” Rahm Emanuel was not, he did volunteer during the Gulf War but that does not make him observant.

    However if you wish to make a pint of people in Trumps “orbit”

    He is accused of being anti-immigrant, but his wife is an immigrant with a heavy accent.

    He is accused ob being ant-semitic
    However his son-in-law is a orthodox jew, his daughter is a convert and they are considered some of his closest advisers.

    His grandchildren actually go to orthodox Jewish private schools.

    His Ambassador of Israel is an orthodox jew.

    And despite the mainstream media ignoring it any visit to Israel would inform you of the fact that he is beloved over there and regarded as a true ” Friend of Israel”.

    #1781540

    Quayboardwarrior
    Participant

    Philospher-

    In Biblical times, people gave far more than 10%. Your forgetting Leket, Shikcha, Peah, Bikkurim, Terumah, Maaser Rishon, Maaser Sheini/Oni, Challa, Maaser Behiemos, Zeroah, Lechyayim Vekeyva…. The list goes on….

    Do you find that disgusting and immoral too?

    #1781559

    philosopher
    Participant

    Quayboardwarrior, that is not more than 10%, it’s just a different ten percent. Many people in those times dealt and traded wiith produce and herds, not necessarily coins, so that’s how they gave their ten percent of maaser.

    And it’s ridiculous to mention challah, how much does that cost per batch of dough? Not even a few pennies per many dollars that comes in (if one sells baked goods). For the size of a half an egg of dough you take off you get 5 full sized challos and many bilkes, the loss of a few pennies is irrelevant according to money that comes in per batch, it’s WAY LESS than a percent.

    Bringing up bikkurim is all irrelevant, a few fruits out of entire orchards does not prove your point of giving away more than ten percent. It just shows how little Hashem asked from us.

    The bottom line is that a person gave away 10% of their income in whatever form it was, and a few fruits and an animal or bird, dough, etc. did not mean giving away more than 10% of one’s income.

    Those living in Eretz Yisroel have other forms of maaser nowadays too besides giving away ten percent of one’s income to tzedaka and we all take challah too. If that affects in any way anyone’s net income then they are in very bad shape indeed. My point is that it has no affect, other than a few pennies or dollars, to our net income. It doesn’t make a dent in our net income but taxes nowadays could skin people alive.

    The only time people were obligated to give away more than ten percent of their income was during shmitta. But only God can expect to make such demands of people because He promised to give back many times over what farmers lost.

    #1781574

    Quayboardwarrior
    Participant

    Philosopher-
    Um, I’m unsure of your math but Teruma is give or take 1.6%, Maaser Rishon is 10%, Maaser Sheini is an additional 10%…..

    … Along with another 21 Maatnos Kehuna

    #1781582

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Kudlow and Seculow are both really talented professionals (though I disagree with their political perspectives. Klayman is the ultimate tin-hat conspiracy theorist whose legal actions have been censured by bar associations and the Court. Root is more a comedian/nutcase who seems a product of the Tumpkopf era and low-cost cable TV news networks seeking to fill tim. I would hope neither of the these last two are ever associated with yiddeshkeit.

    #1781600

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Quayboardwarrior – what is left over after teruma is taken and so on.

    #1781652

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Philosopher
    Challa, when taken while Jews were ritually Pure is 1/24.
    that is actually so much , that chazal said a baker only gives 1/48
    מעשר ראשון 10%
    מעשר שני /עני 10%
    חלה 4%

    Coming up on 23%
    That’s on grain

    #1781659

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    It is 22.24 % (1-..10) x (1-..10) x (1-.-04) = .90 x ..90 x .96 = .7776 left over which is 1-.7776 =.2224 or 22.24% taken

    #1781747

    philosopher
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, sorry about the misunderstanding with the “listening to elders” (although I still don’t agree with you regarding Trump) and thanks for the explanation regarding terumah and maaser.

    Let’s round up what Jews were onligated to give in times of Bais Hamikdosh, lets say it was 25% it’s still not 40 or 50% and especially nowhere near 70% that some Democrats/Socialists/Communists want the rich people to give. The healthiest economies are capitalist economies in addition.to the fact that excessive tax is legalized stealing. A government that want to “equalize” everyone’s income is a Socialist government. A Socialist government is a corrupt government.

    #1782115

    huju
    Participant

    To Gadolhat: You comment that Kudlow is a talented professional, but you don’t say what profession. He does not have masters or doctorate in economics, and, if I am not mistaken, his undergraduate major was not econimics. I don’t think any credentialed economist takes him seriously. I guess his profession is smoothe talker about economics. He has consistently made the “best dressed” lists in Washington. He has long supported the idea that tax cuts pay for themselves, notwithstanding all the evidence to the contrary. Professionals do not ignore evidence, and, for what it’s worth, most professionals are average dressers.

    Sekulow is a lawyer, and lawyers are supposed to advocate their clients’ positions, regardless of merit. He may be good at that, but that does not make him a good advisor.

    #1783157

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, if we figure treuma 1 of 50 it comes out to
    1-1/50 = 49/50 = .98, .98 x .7776 = .762048
    1 – .762048 = .237952 = 24%

    #1783173

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Huju: Agreed, but everything is “relative”. As compared to the other two clowns (Root and Klayman), they are reasonably competent and both command respect in professional circles (although maybe not from a peer-reviewed economic journal or make the “A-list” for a court nominaiton.

    #1783798

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Had Barack Obama welcomed so many apostates into the White House we would be up in arms.
    That is a ridiculous falsehood.

    As is this:
    The tax cuts created a trillion dollar yearly deficits.

    And this:
    He puts the world including Israel in danger by breaking nuclear treaties with Iran and Russia.

    There was never any treaty with Iran. 0bama’s disastrous deal was a private arrangement that did not bind either the USA or Iran. To make a treaty he would have needed the consent of 2/3 of the senate, and he knew he had no chance of that so he didn’t even bother trying.

    And his purpose in making this deal was deliberately to downgrade the USA’s power in the region and build up Iran as a rival power. His whole purpose in office was to take the USA down a notch, and he succeeded. His deal did nothing at all to rein Iran’s nuclear program in, and it deliberately gave Iran the money to enhance its international terrorist activities. It was an act of treason for which he should be prosecuted.

    #1783865

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Milhouse, currently we have nothing. At least Iran and the world considered it a treaty.

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