Arba Kanfos without Techeles

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Arba Kanfos without Techeles

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #593486
    bezalel
    Participant

    There are number of Jews (myself included) that for various reasons do not wear Techeles. The purpose of this post is not intended to discuss whether or not one should wear Techeles, rather my question is for those of us that don’t wear Techeles why we wear Arba Kanfos and put ourselves into a position that makes us obligated in Techeles? Wouldn’t we be better off not wearing Arba Kanfos at all and not be Mevatil the Mitzvah of Techeles?

    #717223
    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    The consensus of the chachamim seems to be that one can (and should) be mekayaim the mitzva of tzitzis withOUT the techailes.

    The correct source of techailes, is, as I’m sure you know, in doubt. There are those who feel they DO know the correct source, but there is machlokes even among those people as to what that correct source is.

    Undoubtedly, the ideal way for tzitzis to be made IS with techailes, but rather than risk using the wrong dye, most poskim hold to do without the techailes altogether.

    To answer YOUR question, by not wearing an arba kanfos AT ALL,in view of the above, we would STILL be mevatel the issue of techailes, AND we would be mevatel the entire mitzva of tzitzis.

    #717225
    bezalel
    Participant

    I know I’m wrong but I can’t figure out why.

    Tzitzis is not a chiyuv unless someone already has Arba Kanfos so not wearing them when one is not mechuyev isn’t a bittul mitzvah (simularly I was never mevatel the mitzvah of eglah arufah).

    The reason why we wear arba kanfos is because we want to fulfill even the mitzvos that we are not mechuyev.

    Most rishonim hold (and I beleive that the psak is) that if someone does not have kosher tzitzis, they are not allowed to wear arba kanfos.

    Why is the law different when someone doesn’t have kosher techeles?

    Are any on my premises wrong?

    Is my reasoning that a person may not create a chiyuv mitzvah on himself that he can’t fulfill flawed?

    Is a person allowed to create a situation that is mechayiv two mitzvos if he can only fulfill one of them? (If you answer yes make sure you have backing.)

    #717226
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    The cheshbon is that techeiles and tzitzis are two separate mitzvos. Tzitzis is a mitzva on the begged, tcheiles is a mitzva on the tzitzis. (according to RaMBaM, RAAVaD says they are one mitzva). We are putting ourselves in a position to be mechuyav in tzitzis out of chavivus, but — if we don’t “hold of” Radziner or murex tcheles — we are onsim on the second mitzva and can wear arba kanfos without a problem.

    Incidentally, RaMBaM is in the minority when he says that the wrong tcheles passuls the tzitzis. By all rights Brisk should wear a Rabbeinu Tam k’shira with one thread being Radziner tcheles and the other being murex to be yotze kol hadeios.

    #717227
    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    Eglah arufah is NOT a mitzvah you are able to be mekayaim, so you wouldn’t be considered to be mevatel the mitzvah.

    But… by simply wearing an arba kanfos beged, you ARE able to be mekayaim the mitzvah of tzitzis, SO – if you don’t do it when you CAN, then you ARE being mevatel a mitzva a’say.

    As I said above, the vast majority of poskim feel that lack of techailes is not me’akaiv fulfilling this mitzvah.

    #717228
    bezalel
    Participant

    Thanks, I’ll take a look at the sources. I’m not sure where the gemorah is but I remember some pretty strong statements about using indigo instead of techeles. Having threads of two different types of techeles is something I don’t plan on doing.

    #717229
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    AinOhdMilvado: Wearing arba kanfos without tzitzis is being mevatel an aseh. Not wearing arba kanfos is simply not being mechuyav. Similarly, if you don’t own chometz on erev pesach you are not being mivatel tashbisu.

    Bezalel: It’s in the mishepara in perek Hazahav in bava metzia. It refers to someone who sells indigo and claims it’s tcheles. In context, it’s a curse on someone who passes off counterfeit merchandise dishonestly. Scary stuff. IIRC the nusach includes the Egyptians, the prophets of Baal who challenged Eliyahu and lots of other very miraculously, very dead sinners.

    #1888969
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    There is no obligation to put techeles on tzitzis. There are two types of tzitzis. Lavan with techeles. And only lavan. Just because one wears techeles on his tallis kotton, he is not obligated to wear it on his tallis gadol. This can be evidenced by the many talmidei chachamim who only wear techeles on their tallis katan.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.