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I just heard a shiur by Rabbi Wallerstein in which he said that a gamlber and his family belong to the satan. is this true??????
If it is then why izzat fair, i am not the one gambling, my father is.
From what I understand about this rabbi’s outlook, I would imagine he’s just going with his usual topic that various activities that presumably tend to become addicting are made easier to fall trap to by the Satan.
Of course, I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as Rabbi Wallerstein, but I definitely would NOT say that if someone enjoys gambling occasionally, he’s sold his soul to the Satan.
There is unfortunately a presumption that partaking of something in moderation is the same being addicted. Just because I’ll be drinking a small about of wine with my Shabbos kiddush tonight (as I do on a weekly basis O_O) does not mean I’m, C”V, addicted to alcohol.
People tend to lose sight of that.
Oy! that is not quite what he said. It needs to be repeated in context. It was a great shiur and I don’t see why you would doubt it.
You would need to give more context, but that sounds like a very strange statement.
A misachek b’kubya (lit. a dice player, the gemara’s term for a gambler) is pasul eidus for two reasons: a) it’s k’ilu gezel (because the other players hope to beat him, so they don’t have real yei’ush on their money) and b) he is not involved in yishuv ha’olam. The second reason would not apply to an occasional gambler.
I have not heard anything about gambling with respect to the Satan, or that it extends to the gambler’s family.
(This is me, not my husband; I just learned it last week).
I have a feeling that what Rabbi Wallerstein was alluding to is that gambling is known as an addiction. Though people do gamble occasionally (I think everybody used to make the once a year trip to Atlantic City when I was a kid..) it has been shown to be a slippery slope. If you know you have an addictive type of personality, it’s probably best to stay away.
You really have to hear the shiur to understand the context. A VERY simplified explanation is that when you do things you shouldn’t be doing (or that are assur, don’t remember exactly), any benefit you get is fed to you from the Soton. If you run a prostitution ring, the money you make wasn’t designated to you on Rosh Hashana, it came from the sitra Achra to encourage you to continue, so anything you do with that money is going to be tainted and you can’t get schar from it.
That is my SIMPLE version of what he said, he explains himself and sources.
I don’t think this has direct connection with the above, just somewhat.
A certain Rav was berating his congregant for his excessive drinking habits, his drunken ways. So this drunk said “Rabbi, what do you want from me, I drink the way all Jews drink”. Replied the Rav “That’s your mistake, I want you to drink like one Jew does”
R’ Yehuda says that both mesahakei de kubla and mafrihe yonim (people who gamble by wagering on pigeon races) are pasul when this gambling constitutes their sole livelihood. The mishna (Sanhedrin 24) says explicitly that people who have a profession and aren’t professional gamblers are not pasul.
Rashi explains that the professional gambler (as JF02 says) isn’t involved in improving society or doing anything useful, and as such, they have no familiarity with business norms, and have no aversion to illegal activity.
In the gemara, there is a machloket R’ Sheshet-R’ Rami bar Hama on why the dice playing makes the gambler pasul. R’ Sheshet says they’re pasul because they don’t contribute to society; R’ Rami bar Hama says that they’re pasul because gambling is an asmachta,(the loser did not resolve to pay if he loses, for he expected to win, and as such, the one collecting money from the bet is stealing, which makes one pasul). For R’ Sheshet, being a gambler is operatively what makes a gambler pasul (he says gambling is not an asmachta, because to be an asmachta, the player has to rely on their own ability, and a gambler is knowingly relying on chance, not ability).
Rif and Rosh both say explicitly that a dice player is pasul due to the fact that he doesn’t contribute to society. The Rambam says that gambling, even when it is stipulated that the winner will take a particular amount, is gezel me d’rabbanan (even if the owner lets the winner take, the winner is collecting for frivolity, as this is gezel). Rambam therefore forbids all gambling, not only professional gambling. And gambling is generally believed to be a davar mechu’ar (Rivash paskens as such), even if you don’t hold like Rambam (and R’ Rami bar Hama that gambling constitutes gezel).
Rabbi Wallerstein’s comments hold correct in a certain sense; gambling is a bad thing, whether you hold le ma’aseh like Rami bar Hama/Rambam, or Rif/Rosh/R’ Sheshet. Whether you hold that a gambler is pasul due to the act being gezel, or due to the fact that a gambler is a miscreant, certainly Judaism views it negatively.
Please! I think that there is a common misconception of the psul of gamblers eidus. It is not a psul haguf. It is certainly not k’ilu gezel. The reason clearly implied in the Gemorah is that they are untrustworthy since their testimony can be “bought”, I.E. they chazakah of lying for money. The rayah is that if the baalei din agree to accept the testimony of a gambler or a cowboy, his testimony is accepted. Therefore, if Reb Shmelke goes to Foxwoods once in a while, that would not necessarily passel his testimony in beis din if he was otherwise deemed trustworthy.
There certainly a satanic quality to compulsive gambling but the idea that a visit to AC or a Thursday night poker game will inevitably lead someone to the road to degradation is simply not true.
If you wash a vegetable and eat it without drying it and it transmits tum’a, is that a punishment or a consequence? I think people are confusing two different issues here. R’ wallerstein was not addressing the addiction aspect of gambling in this shiur. He was talking about acquiring money through inappropriate actions and using the money for Torah. I don’t think it is argued that Torah institutions are not supposed to take money acquired through inappropriate means (if only). This is because of the ‘status’ of that money. R’ Wallerstein was saying that all the Torah and mitzvos you buy with that money (he singled out gambling as an example only) won’t give you zchusim in Torah. Is that a punishment? No, it is just the way it is. Germs spread sickness whether you knew they were there or not, tum’a spreads as well, whether you know it is there or not. The spiritual world is as real as ours and follows rules and cause and effect, not knowing about it does not prevent it from happening.
YOUR FATHER’S AVEIROS ARE NOT YOURS! You need to not worry about what money you are using to live. Your job right now is to find someone you trust, write an email to Rabbi Wallerstein who used to be a crazy gambling addict. Tell JUST ONE teacher or counselor and beg their discretion. They will not be thinking about your family’s reputation, they will think about your pain and see if they can help. Or call an anonymous helpline like Yitty Libel or Shalom Task Force. Or even one of those people who works with OTD teens. Even if you aren’t OTD, they are prfessionals who can help direct you and they KNOW how to keep a secret!!!!
Do NOT give up without giving someone a fair chance to help you! Does anyone know you are cutting? Has anyone helped you in the past?
Option 1. yitty leibel help line-718.help now
Option 2. It’s important that your school understand your situation. As much as it pains you to tell them, it’s more painful to keep it inside. Please, find a teacher or principal and tell them.
You say you can’t do this much longer; not telling anyone isn’t making it easier on you. At this point you need to take care of yourself, irrespective of how it will affect your father. I don’t ask to be in your shoes, but understand that we each have our issues. Hashem expects us to take care of ourselves; you need to take care of yourself.
You also need to understand that your father won’t stop unless he hits rock bottom. You need to make that happen asap. It will only get worse and people will find out then. I implore you, tell someone who can help you.
He trusts you to take care of yourself, please, don’t put your father’s reputation ahead of your own emotional well being.
Art – it sounds like you are in terrible, terrible pain. You are not alone! Please reach out for help – try Yitty Leibel Helpline 718-435-7669. Hatzlacha rabba!
Is there a teacher or guidance counsellor in your school to speak to?
TAOM, You are not responsible for other people’s actions. You will not be punished because of something that your father does. Hashem does not work that way.
I would strongly urge you to get in touch with Shalom Task Force, or perhaps Rabbi Wallerstein, they are trained in dealing with sensitive matters and they will keep it all confidential.
I don’t think anybody would judge you or think of you differently. On the contrary, they will see you as very strong for having reached out and doing what’s right.
TAOM, you’re very brave for speaking out.
Think about someone in real life to discuss your feelings with. You are in a lot of pain and it’s not healthy to bottle it up. You’re smart and IY”H you’ll get through this. You just can’t do it on your own, because it’s not so simple. Don’t worry about your family’s reputation now, worry about yourself. Speak to someone you trust and who will keep things private.
Good luck.
Art-of-Moi, it is your secret; it’s not just your father’s issue, it’s yours too. You have every right to speak to someone, and most certainly should. You are in tremendous pain, and need to take care of yourself. Please, please do.
Please get help! This is not the kind of thing you should be going through alone. It only makes you feel more guilty and ashamed of things that are not your fault!
You cannot control, nor are you supposed to be responsible for your father’s behavior. The only one you are responsible for is yourself, and this includes your health. Cutting may feel good temporarily, but the scars remain forever. The best thing you can do is find someone healthy you can talk freely with, whether it’s an anonymous hotline, or a school therapist. These people are here for people like you (and me. and everyone who suffers silently while pretending everything is normal)so you can talk and see that you’re not alone, and there are ways to help you.
Also understand that when you’re personally involved in a situation, not to take a speech aimed at the general public as applicable to all situations. I do not know the speech, nor am I sure of what Rabbi Wallerstein was referring to, but I know he would never blame your father’s addiction on you. If his speech really affected you, perhaps it would best to speak to him for clarification with specific details of your situation.
Also, I want to say how incredible it is that you have the courage to say something. I know that must have been such a hard decision, so you have my sincere admiration for taking this step. It’s a major step, and I hope it leads you to finding the peace of mind you truly deserve. Remember, this is not your fault, and you do not need to suffer like this!
I have to tell you that I am so used to hearing about these types of horror stories about the people you least expect it from. It’s a huge secret in your eyes, but people who help kids like you are so used to it that they will have no problem focusing on you. And addictions can only be kept secret for so long before the bottom drops out, trust me.
Get yourself help even if you aren’t ready to speak. Ask for someone to stand at your side and wait for you to be ready.
An addiction is when a person’s body is dependent on something. It’s extremely hard to stop; most people can’t without a 12 step program.
Your father will not admit to his problem and stop unless you help him. Don’t be an enabler. Don’t let him continue his addiction. Do anything you can; make sure that he has no access to his finances, tell him that you need money etc.
I’m sure that if you tell your principal or teacher, then it won’t be on the news. However, if you leave him be, he will probable go bankrupt, or worse and his name will be besmirched.
I beg you, please, tell someone. You can. Choose life! ????? ?????.
Your father needs your help. Secretly, he wishes that someone will help him. It’s up to you. DO IT! DON’T SAY YOU CAN’T!
art-of-moi – I am so, so sorry about your current situation. I had no clue. No, I highly doubt that you’re going to be C”V punished for what he’s doing with your family’s money. I really wish I could tell you who to reach out to. I don’t know and if I were in your shoes, I would be just as worried.
All I can tell you is, congratulations for not being suicidal, and may you continue to stay strong and hopeful for however long this nisayon lasts.
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