Are guns allowed to be carried on shabbos?
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- This topic has 14 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 4 months ago by Avram in MD.
January 21, 2023 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #2158346Shlomo_123Participant
Are guns allowed to be carried on shabbos (not in a eiruv) for security?January 22, 2023 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2158377☕️coffee addictParticipant
They’re כלי שמלאכתו לאסור and you’re doing it לצורך גופו
Regarding an Eruv isn’t it worn on a belt?January 22, 2023 9:34 am at 9:34 am #2158384yungermanSParticipant
Ask your local Orthodox Rabbi. Cause the Coffee Room is not a place to ask serious religious Halachic questions.January 22, 2023 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2158450Yserbius123Participant
If you aren’t in a time of active war, then presumably the gun is for security purposes. If you live in such a dangerous place that you need killing weapons to protect yourself, then on Shabbos you should hire a goy to stand outside your home and shul to protect you. There are almost no circumstances today in the US where carrying a gun should be allowed.January 22, 2023 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #2158514Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
I would think that in the case they are allowed, they are also required. You can also keep them locked in shul with your talles.January 22, 2023 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #2158487mentsch1Participant
I do not know if we are allowed to mention other jewish websites (that start with a v and end with an n), but
Rav Hoffman published an article on friday on this question. He has more than one tshuva claiming its a kli shemelachto l’heter
The theory is, that the vast majority of the time the gun itself isn’t being used, it is simply acting as a deterrent
I am guessing (though this wasn’t discussed) that the ammo becomes no different than a battery in a watchJanuary 22, 2023 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #2158600Shlomo_123Participant
Youngermans, I’m just wondering out of curiosity.January 22, 2023 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #2158613LakewoodscoopParticipant
You’re wondering what a bunch of people that don’t know what they are saying are saying on a topic that a rov needs to answer as there is a million cases and details to each one. This coffee room discussion isn’t getting anywhere.January 22, 2023 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #2158615☕️coffee addictParticipant
“ I do not know if we are allowed to mention other jewish websites (that start with a v and end with an n), but
Rav Hoffman published an article on friday on this question. He has more than one tshuva claiming its a kli shemelachto l’heter ”January 23, 2023 9:51 am at 9:51 am #2158711akupermaParticipant
1. If in a situation where you might need the gun for defense, why is it even a shailoh?
2. Based on the mishna discussing someone who wanted to wear their dress uniform (parade armour and parade weapons – not the ones that are designed to be used in combat), it seems very clear that you can only carry weapons based on military necessity, not to show off. That suggests perhaps a humrah to conceal the weapon rather than to show off you have a gun. A terrorist in fact would first target anyone with a gun so there is no advantage to the armed person in displaying a firearm, and it is a shailoh if displaying a gun is in fact a way of impressing your neighbors, in which case the mishna’s objections to displaying weapons would come into play.January 23, 2023 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #2158777GadolhadorahParticipant
While its never happened to my knowledge in any yiddeshe mosdoa, the events over the weekend in California show that in some cases,, an attack by some deranged individual can originate from what might be referenced as אונדזער מענטשןJanuary 23, 2023 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #2158773mentsch1Participant
there are tshuvos on this
specifically on the problem of a gun in shul violating the mishna
solutions given range from concealment to removing the bulletsJanuary 24, 2023 10:30 am at 10:30 am #2158958Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
some heimishe terrorists would be deterred by seeing guns and move on to softer targets. Not that helps the society in general.January 24, 2023 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #2159063akupermaParticipant
mentsch1: Removing the bullets eliminates the heter to have the weapon on Shabbos as they would make it something you are displaying to “show off” and no more, and therefore banned (as per the mishna). Concealing seems much more relevant both as a security move and to avoid “showing off”.January 24, 2023 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #2159087maskildoreshParticipant
What saddens me isn’t just that people think that the YWN Coffeeroom is a place for a Halachic discussion , it not even the overwhelming Am Haaratzus of most of the answers.
What bothers me the most is the complete lack of awareness of the fact the genuine knowledge is needed to opine on a matter of Halacha. Throwing out softball Sevaros, quoting links to articles on the web, what has happened to the Am Chacham VaNavon?!?
Oh. Theyre spending time in the coffee room and online.
Ok. Nuff said. Time to leave the bathroom and go back to Beis MedrashJanuary 24, 2023 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #2159226Shimon NodelParticipant
@coffee addict what does wearing it on a belt have to do with anything? It is hotzaah no matter how you wear it. Without a proper eruv, it is 100% asur deoraisa. If it’s pikuach nefesh, people should daven at homeJanuary 24, 2023 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #2159242TuviaMillerParticipant
Great points all around, very interesting discussion. However, it would be remiss if one doesn’t mention the grave concern of having a loaded gun in a Shul where there is a rampant amount of drinking. Alcohol and guns are a worrisome combo.
TuviaJanuary 24, 2023 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #2159248TuviaMillerParticipant
Great points all around, very interesting discussion. Sad the situation is so dire that we need to have such a conversation. However, it would be remiss if one doesn’t mention the grave concern of having a loaded gun in a Shul where there is a rampant amount of drinking. Alcohol and guns are a worrisome combo.
TuviaJanuary 25, 2023 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #2159506ubiquitinParticipant
“What saddens me isn’t just that people think that the YWN Coffeeroom is a place for a Halachic discussion ,”
The exact opposite saddens me.
Every silly topic is fair conversation. But chas veshalom some Torah should be discussed all of a sudden “well meaning” people come running No no No Torah allowed!
don’t worry no torah here just dreidel
If you are genuinly worried about the “overwhelming Am Haaratzus” share, contribute correct the mistakesJanuary 25, 2023 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #2159537Avram in MDParticipant
“Ok. Nuff said”
More than enough. Better to be an am haaretz than to speak lashon hara about the Jewish people.
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