Are Law abiding minorities affected by police racism?

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  • #1869265
    Haimy
    Participant

    It’s very likely that some policemen are racists as a reflection of the broader civilian population some of whom are racist. I’m sure there are quite a few antisemitic cops out there too but we don’t know about it because we don’t engage with the police too often. Police brutality should be unacceptable to all of us even if it”s aimed at minorities & not us. But are law-abiding African Americans having a problem with police brutality or criminals being stopped by brutal police having this problem? Would focusing on lowering the crime rate automatically solve the police brutality issue? Would lowering the crime rate solve income inequality? homelessness, domestic abuse, drug use, & the problems this community is facing? Or do African Americans face so much discrimination they don’t stand a chance to succeed? They are victims of 400 years of discrimination & cannot become a successful part of American society. Only reparations for slavery in the form of guaranteed income will allow them to live a fair life?

    #1870906
    The Shady Charedi
    Participant

    “Are law abiding minorities affected by police racism?”
    No, law abiding minorities are affected [primarily, albeit indirectly] by NON-law abiding minorities.

    When Israel takes a strong stance against our enemies, so many idiots come out admonishing Israel that it will just cause those enemies to thereby dislike us more and act against us even harsher next time. Those same idiots should realise their hypocrisy now by not admonishing the NON-law abiding minorities for the backlash results and necessary reaction that it will generate by the law enforces against that minority class.
    (The obvious difference is that one are law enforcers, putting their lives at risk to engage and suppress criminals, and the other are reactionary bad guys themselves.) So the reaction of the law enforces is not driven by racism, but by prudent care for their lives.

    “I’m sure there are quite a few antisemitic cops out there too but we don’t know about it because we don’t engage with the police too often.”
    Exactly, ‘hagufah’, “because we don’t engage with the police too often”.

    #1870931
    Abba_S
    Participant

    I would say racism doesn’t exist but blacks have high positions in Police Departments. The problem is resisting arrest, if Floyd hadn’t he would have been taken to the station processed and given a desk appearance and out within an hour or two.

    #1870943
    charliehall
    Participant

    Not commenting on reparations, but listen to Sen. Tim Scott, a conservative Republican about how he continued to be stopped by racist cops for no reason EVEN AFTER HE HAD BEEN ELECTED TO THE US SENATE. I have had had black coworker with advanced degrees get the same treatment. And when our house was burglarized, the racist cop who came to investigate tried to pin the crime on our incredibly honest African American housecleaner who had been the one to report the crime. He also complained that we were paying her too much and that we should have hired an illegal immigrant instead.

    Yes, we have a problem with racist cops.

    #1870973
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    shady

    “No, law abiding minorities are affected [primarily, albeit indirectly] by NON-law abiding minorities.”

    so your answer to the OP is “yes” Just you argue that it is not the fault of the police, The police have to treat all law abiding minorities as suspects because of the non-law abiding minorities.

    #1871075
    The little I know
    Participant

    Charlie:

    Yes, you encountered a bad apple. And such bad apples should be identified and weeded out from wherever they are found. Whether these people are cops, politicians, journalists, sanitation workers, etc. That does not define police, and you know it. It’s just an agenda that the Dems embrace because of the craving to create a state of dependency and a massive number of guaranteed votes to stay in power.

    Meanwhile, you have certainly had colleagues who were from minorities who were accomplished in their careers, and upstanding citizens. If the inner city minorities invested in their lives instead of their current choices, many would make it. But they don’t. And we have voices in the political world who cry for them, insisting that it is the burden of the hard working taxpayers to insure that they have the luxuries of the world. You and I need to provide them with bank accounts, all the latest devices, and free everything wherever they choose to be. Why? Because of their racial status? We need to drop the entry scores for advanced education to attract minorities? This gets more bizarre all the time.

    There is a racial divide, and the elements needed to minimize that are not entitlements. The minorities themselves need to expend efforts in this. But they want you and I to rescue them by putting them into greater dependency.

    Lastly, I have the constitutional right to believe anything I wish about minorities, and I will resist the thought police telling me how to think. I will not consider an applicant for a job based on race or color, only on qualification and merit. And if my employees are all white, that does NOT indicate that I am racist.

    #1871100
    Joseph
    Participant

    There’s very little anti-black racism in the police forces. Not much different, in fact, proportionally than anti-white racism.

    But to whatever extent it exists, it isn’t racism per se. It is more anti-criminal. If criminals proportionally are much more likely to be male than female, police officers are much more likely to suspect males of crimes than they will suspect females. That does not make the police misandrist or anti-male. If criminals proportionally are much more likely to be black than white, police officers are much more likely to suspect blacks of crimes than they will suspect whites. That does not make the police racist. If criminals proportionally are much more likely to be younger than older, police officers are much more likely to suspect young people of crimes than they will suspect older people. That does not make the police ageist or anti-young.

    #1871107
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    A lot of people have high horses.
    If we boil urban crises down to yes or no questions we can always blame the poor. So, in that spirit, I have a yes or no question, myself? If society has reached a point that it can absolve it’s responsibility because there are others to blame, is there any reason to retain TaNaCH?

    #1871115
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    ABSOLUTELY……………………..law abiding minorities are affected by police racism

    I live in small town CT. It is 85% white.
    Our cops are notorious for stopping black drivers who cross the town line. Usual excuse…’you have a tail light out. They humiliate the driver, pulled to the side of the road for all to see, call in two additional patrol cars. After running the license plate and drivers license and finding no wants and warrants, they say, your tail light is working now, but wasn’t before. You need to have it checks by a repair facility.

    The actual truth: The driver was stopped for DWB. DRIVING WHILE BLACK

    A few years ago our town was cited (along with many others} for this racial profiling.

    My wife grew up here. She told me there were only three black families in town when she was growing up. I listened to a 55 year old member of one of those families at a recent symposium on out police racism. He is a Yale graduate and a local physician. When he was growing up, police would stop him all the time, asking why he was in the area. His father was followed home by a patrol car one night right into their driveway. The cop pulled a gun and wanted to know what right dad had to be on private property in town. The father replied, I own this house and live here.
    Because the requirement to be a police officer are so low, it often attracts gun happy, racist red necks. All you need is to be 18 years old, have a high school diploma or GED, pass the easy entrance exam and then 16 weeks at the state police academy. Many positions go vacant and towns desperately hire any who apply and pass the background checks of no felonies or major misdemeanor convictions.

    Untold amounts of money has been paid out by area police departments who have lost race discrimination lawsuits.

    BTW>>>Driving While Hispanic is almost as dangerous

    #1871139
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Charlie, a major problem in the inner cities are the teachers unions. Black parents aren’t stupid, they know education is the way out of poverty. However, their kids are forced to go to terrible schools and the unions, along withg the Democratic politicians that they throw money at, fight school choice tooth and nail. There is a long waiting line for inner city kids in NYC to get into a charter because the parents see the education they get. The kids all read and do math at or above their age level and this year every kid graduating from Brooklyn’s Sunrise academy was accepted to college.

    #1871171
    akuperma
    Participant

    1. Ask about the experience of frum travellers crossing borders who are often suspected of smuggling.

    2. Arguably police stereotyping is based on class. Police tend to be respectful of well dressed, well educated, polite persons regardless of race, and tend to beat up poorly dressed, ill educated and especially rude persons no matter what they look like. While this makes perfect sense to a sociologist, a lawyer will point out that under American law the police aren’t allowed to beat up people, even if society thinks they deserve. Stereotyping strangers is normal human behavior, even if it is illegal and unfair to the person be stereotyped.

    #1871177
    SchnitzelBigot
    Participant

    This was discussed in other threads. I came to the conclusion that police feel like since racial profiling does work since you do find more illegal stuff in black cars than white cars, that gives them the right to do so despite the immense indignation this is causing to innocent people.

    But if you are asking if police are more “brutal” to innocent people, you will need to go make studies about this. There isnt any national database on use of force incidents. There are mixed results from the data that we have now.

    #1871184
    som1
    Participant

    of course there is going to be a few racist cops, just like there are a small percentage of racist civilians. but in general minorities are not affected by racism, either from citizens or from police!

    #1871193
    Joseph
    Participant

    Do police suspect or stop men more than they suspect or stop women, when searching for suspects or looking for crimes in progress?

    Do police suspect or stop younger people more than they suspect or stop the elderly, when searching for suspects or looking for crimes in progress?

    So why should anyone be surprised or care that police suspect or stop blacks more than they suspect or stop whites, when searching for suspects or looking for crimes in progress?

    None of the above is sexist, ageist or racist.

    #1871213
    som1
    Participant

    ct lawyer: minorities are affected by racist lawyers, because were i live there are racist lawyers that don’t take clients that are black or Hispanic, and if they are prosecutors they will specifically take cases against blacks or Hispanic

    #1871307
    SchnitzelBigot
    Participant

    @joseph

    I care.

    #1871331
    Joseph
    Participant

    Schnitzel: You have the right to have any opinion, however wrong it may be.

    Do you believe it is sexist for police to suspect or stop men more than they suspect or stop women, when searching for suspects or looking for crimes in progress?

    Do you believe it is ageist for police to suspect or stop young people more than they suspect or stop the old people, when searching for suspects or looking for crimes in progress?

    #1871350
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Joseph, you have to have a legal reason to pull someone over. Senator Scott, a black conservative Senator has said he’s been pulled over any number of times in Washington DC just because he’s black.
    Akuperma, maybe its because of all those chareidim caught smuggling drugs into Europe and Japan

    #1871353
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @som1
    You post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread: :”Are Law abiding minorities affected by police racism?”

    This white, Jewish lawyer has had black clients as long as I’ve been in practice. If the client has enough money to warrant, a trust, adoption, divorce, guardianship, child custody or any other part of our practice, then the only color that matters is GREEN…can they afford our fees? We are a for profit law firm. We do XXX hours of pro bono work per year, usually child custody or parental rights cases as assigned by our local Probate Judge. In a mostly white community, most clients are white.

    We do not practice criminal law or personal injury or medical malpractice or landlord/tenant/housing cases.

    Unlike NY, CT does not have District Attorneys. We have States Attorneys who prosecute cases. They are NOT elected (like a DA in NY) and don’t get to choose to take cases involving minority defendants. If a States attorney is assigned to a specific courthouse, the senior States Attorney and clerk assign most cases based on workload availability. The exception are major felonies which go to the most experienced trial attorneys in the office. Every few years the states attorneys are rotated geographically. So after spending three years in a city court with majority of minority defendants, they may find themselves in a rural court that almost never sees a minority defendant,
    Also, different is that we do not have a Grand Jury system to issue indictments in CT. The police make their case to the states attorney, and he/she decides charges and whether to prosecute.

    #1871411
    harvard
    Participant

    I would sill like to reach Haimy after shabbos the loan might still be available for me thanks if anyone else knows anything problematic in borrowing from kabbage directly (I think a lot of their loans aren’t directly but mine is) please let me know Sorry for disturbing the thread it’s just thousands of dollars at stake and the names of the owners didn’t seem Jewish to me and I was wondering if Haimy’s chashoshos were real or he was just asking anyone that can help please help me thanks

    #1871414
    som1
    Participant

    harvard call a rav if you cant get through to haimy

    #1871413
    som1
    Participant

    ct lawyer: it has to do with the thread because its about minority suffering racism .

    and im raising awareness of lawyer brutality,
    we should not have any more lawyers
    #defund the lawyers

    #1871415
    Joseph
    Participant

    AJ: If an at-large violent suspect or kidnapper being sought by the police has a known description of being a black male, 6 feet and 3 inches and between the age of 25 and 35, then there is no reason for officers to pull over females, people age 50 or older or whites.

    #1871649
    The Shady Charedi
    Participant

    @CTLAWYER
    Just because the blacks in your town are getting profiled and are a disproportionate subject of police suspicions (assuming your circumstantial observations are a true reflection of the greater numbers), isn’t necessarily due to police racism, and certainly not necessarily systematic. It may very plausibly be due also to simple prudent, logical concern. If a snake-catcher is notified that green snakes in a particular area are behaving more brazenly, and their venom is more toxic, then he’s not to be criticised for being on the lookout for green snakes more than red. Duh.

    As @Joseph succinctly said “None of the above is sexist, ageist or racist.”

    Now, it may be true that that particular snake catcher might indeed harbour personal anti-green animus. But being that his job entails catching dangerous snakes, the anti-green theory should not be the first assumed motivation for his actions. And certainly not one to paint all snake-catchers on a global level.

    ~~

    Also, your criticism of @som1 was pointless and silly – his comment was completely on-topic. (Not like it’s uncommon or wrong for discussions in a Coffee-Room thread to run off topic on side discussions anyway.) And your response to him (which, by the way is probably about 8 times as long as his small 3-line comment), was indeed off-topic, and had little to do even with what HE had said. His comment wasn’t a personal attack on you. Don’t get so defensive.

    #1871764
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Shady
    The finding of racial profiling and stops for Driving while black was found by the CT courts to be systemic racist policy of the police department in many towns (including my own). It is not my anecdotal observation. The departments were fined, ordered to institute new policies, Required to retrain officers and to wear and use body cams.
    A number of top brass were forced to resign or take early retirement because they had instituted this racist profiling as part of department procedure.

    #1871784
    som1
    Participant

    ctlawyer name the policy.

    #1871786
    Joseph
    Participant

    Gender profiling of those Driving While Male (DWM) and age profiling of those Driving While Young (DWY) is far more systemic biased policy than any allegations about so-called DWB. Men are pulled over much more disproportionately as are those who are young.

    But since there’s no political brownie points to be earned by left-wing politicians and media potato heads in pointing out the DWM and DWY realities, they rather try to stir race wars by focusing on race issues to maintain their ownership of the black vote.

    #1871950
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If police don’t murder anyone, they won’t murder people of a particular race.

    #1871991
    som1
    Participant

    ct lawyer your not naming any policy.
    and the argument that blacks are arrested 4-5 times more then whites percentage wise, isn’t saying anything because they also commit 4-5 times more crimes then whites!!

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by YW Moderator-💯.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by som1.
    #1872207
    catch yourself
    Participant

    som1 –

    “of course there is going to be a few racist cops, just like there are a small percentage of racist civilians.”

    Do you really think there is a “small percentage of racist civilians?”

    #1872214
    Joseph
    Participant

    som1: America elected a black President by a clear majority vote two consecutive times. Systematic racism doesn’t exist in America.

    #1872278
    som1
    Participant

    joseph- i know! thats why im telling ct lawyer to name a so called racist policy!
    and he cant cause there is none

    #1872277
    som1
    Participant

    catch yourself – yeh i do!!
    what percentage of Americans do you think are racist??

    #1872314
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @som1
    Unlike you, I am not glued to my computer all day lurking in the CR. I worked today preparing for a child custody hearing to be held via Zoom tomorrow.

    I suggest you google CT Annual Racial Profiling Report and see the results of the 98 municipalities for 2019.

    I WON’T identify a specific policy by name, number or statute, because that would help you locate the town I live in. There are 169 towns in CT, you can narrow it down by the fact I have stated over the years that I live in Fairfield County. That is as much personal information that I choose to share.

    When you google you will find an interesting article in the CT Post newspaper (covers Bridgeport and area) about the 2019 study and it names municipalities still racial profiling, especially at dusk.

    #1872328
    2scents
    Participant

    CTL

    Pretty disgusting when you act as if you are superior to other posters.

    For some reason the hot shot lawyer that keeps on mentioning that you charge a few hundred dollars per hour, takes the time to respond and argue with random online posters.

    Not an activity one would expect from the type of person your trying to portray yourself as.

    Like you think someone cares about the prep for a zoom meeting that occupied your day, stop playing like your better than the next guy.

    The next guy might have been involved in more worthy activities than those of yours, who cares.

    #1872329
    som1
    Participant

    all that came up was a 500 page racial profiling investigation. you dont want to name the policy since it doesn’t exist anywhere in the USA,!
    the investigation was on individual cases of racial profiling not on a policy!!

    #1872330
    SchnitzelBigot
    Participant

    Did New York State really make it a hate crime to call the police that a “black person is acting suspicious etc.”?

    #1872384
    catch yourself
    Participant

    2scents
    Please, relax. CTL was responding to the insinuation that he didn’t respond because he had no response.

    I don’t know about CTL or anyone else, but I come here for a short of outlet, so it doesn’t matter what other work I do all day and for how much money; I get what I want from the CR.

    Let’s not make this a place of personal attacks and vitrio

    #1872388
    Joseph
    Participant

    Rayshard Brooks grabbed a Taser gun from a policeman and attempted to shoot the officer with it. The Atlanta police officer shot him in response. Now the BLM rioting thugs burned down the store this happened in front of and are blaming police again for defending themselves from a violently attacking criminal.

    This isn’t racism. This is the proper police response. But in order to appease the rioters, the Atlanta police chief was forced to resign, the police officer who defended himself was illegally fired and the DA is already promising the riotera to charge the officer before his upcoming primary election, and even the second officer at the scene who didn’t shoot in self-defense has been suspended in order to appease the mobs on the streets.

    #1872441
    2scents
    Participant

    Catch yourself,

    That exactly was my point. He should stop making this personal.

    #1872464
    charliehall
    Participant

    “a major problem in the inner cities are the teachers unions”

    If we were to partner with the parents of minority students who are stuck in lousy inner city schools, we might finally repeal the Blaine Amendment, raise taxes, and fund private schools. But why would they want to work with a community that blames them for racist practices by police, as seen here in the comments?

    #1872480
    2scents
    Participant

    At this point, I really do not see why someone would focus on a law enforcement career. There is so much stacked against these professionals.

    #1872610
    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“At this point, I really do not see why someone would focus on a law enforcement career”

    It depends where. In Minneapolis there won’t be PD. A lot of other Lib cities will follow suit.
    This will cause many to Leave Inner Cities. Not just whites, but even Law – abiding Minorities, including the Blacks!

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