Are there (intelligent) yidden on other plants?

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  • #1821274

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    After the moon landing, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Z’TL, stated that there is support in daas Torah for the notion that life exists on other planets, although the arguments in support of an ET in chassidish lvush, In the abstract, the concept offers both opportunities (e.g. solving the shidduch crisis) and challenges (does z’man moishicach mean ET will be part of the geulah). Now that Elon Musk will soon be offering “space travel” (albeit suborbital) and our President has directed NASA to accelerate the schedule for a Mars landing, is it time to begin worrying about what yidden may discover when they confront the unimaginably complicated set of issues such as determining zman krisas shema while en route to the outer limits of solar system, pouring negal vasser in a zero gravity environment etc.

    #1821600

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I don’t think plants can hold much life besides their own (besides for bugs or birds

    I hope this helps 😜

    #1821608

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Plants= Planets
    I was suffering the effects of an overdose of plant-based pork in preparing the cholent for Shabbos….
    Oh,….and another question immediately came to mind for the first Yidden to land on Mars. Do you bench lavana twice a month (one for each moon). If so, it gets a bit more complicated when you land on Jupiter with 67 known moons.

    #1821620

    Meno
    Participant

    Oh,….and another question immediately came to mind for the first Yidden to land on Mars. Do you bench lavana twice a month (one for each moon). If so, it gets a bit more complicated when you land on Jupiter with 67 known moons.

    Why would you say kiddush levana based on another planet’s “moon”?

    #1821637

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    Meno, when you get to Mars you can ask your local orthodox Martian rabbi this interesting shila. He certainly has heard it before.

    #1821641

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Meno: The inyan of making Kiddush levanah each month in part is to remind us of the magnificent wonders of Hashem’s creations and wonders, as if the schechina in our world, so often hidden, is coming out to greet us on a regular basis. Because to earthbound yidden, the moon has the most regular and visible cycle of all the objects (other than the Sun) , we take the occasion of its monthly renewal to make a baracha and thank hashem in appreciation of the entire masterpiece of the solar system. Nowhere in daas torah is there any explicit limitation that this inyan is only applicable to earth-based observations of celestial objects. Why is the magnificence of a Martian moon any less of a wonder?
    YD: The Martian Rover has not sent back any information since late 2017 on whether the Martian Vaad Harabonim has taken a position on the frequency of benching lavana for the two Martian moons.

    #1821699

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    According to Copernicus it makes sense to make kiddush levonah on our moon as the moon orbits the earth. Ptolemy holds that the moon has a separate orbit the questiion applies, why we make kiddush levonah?

    #1821695

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Look up the Tiferes Yonasan on the dor hafloga where he writes בידוע שיש מקום ישוב על הלבנה it is known that the moon is a place that can be inhabitat.

    #1821698

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Why would you expect life on other planets to resemble life on Earth? And if so, why would you expect it to be so similar as to include humanlike aliens?

    #1821787

    avreichamshlomo
    Participant

    If you didnt finish shas, I can’t understand why you would spending your time on these narishkeit speculations.

    #1821797

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I asked a question above why we make kiddush levona according Ptolemy? The answer is simple, it doesn’t matter whose moon it is as long we get light from it.

    #1821800

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “If you didnt finish shas, I can’t understand why you would spending your time on these narishkeit speculations”
    So if anyone in the CR has not completed ganz shas at least one time and filed a notarized statement to that effects with the Mods, they should be precluded from posting any questions including narishkeit speculation. Its going to be a very lonely coffee room.

    #1821802

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    Another interesting question deals with mikveh construction and usage. Until we can create artificial gravity on spacecrafts (nothing not possible for many many years), this will be a big problem for many yidden as the trip to Mars is very long and water is scarce in space and Mars.

    #1821813

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Reb Debbie: Maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves. If yidden seem to be having a difficult time getting from Newark to EY w/o spending an unplanned Shabbos in Athens or Halifax, perhaps we shouldn’t be worrying about “hilchos interplanetary travel” . .

    #1821841

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Actually the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that while there might be life on other planets there cannot be intelligent life there, because such people would need the Torah to tell them how to behave, and there can only be one matan torah in the universe.

    I don’t understand this argument. Just as the Australian Aborigines and the inhabitants of sub-Saharan Africa and of the Americas had to wait thousands of years till the Torah could reach them, why could the same not be true for the inhabitants of Mars or Titan, or of some planet orbiting Tau Ceti? Until humans with the Torah contact them, Hashem may have left them to their own devices and judges them accordingly, just as He did with so many humans.

    #1821843

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Am I an “intelligent yid”? I’m far out here in the CR planet.

    #1821862

    DrYidd
    Participant

    if they are wealthy and not learned, chabad will open a franchise.

    #1821902

    banjobob
    Participant

    If Sammy the Worm/ Microscopic creature, is Jewish and intelligent, yup!

    #1822068

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    Of course the Yiddin on other planets are intelligent. Why should they be different than other Yiddin. I want to know if they all have the same minhaggim and daven the same nusach.

    #1822073

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Wouldn’t martians still be subject to Sheva Mitzvot B’nai Noach??

    #1822079

    Avi K
    Participant

    Is a Sephardi a Yid?

    #1822081

    samthenylic
    Participant

    You don’t have to be human to be intelligent …. Look into PEREK SHIRA! All of creation worships Hashem and praise HIM.

    #1822092

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Gadolhadora, Martians would not be subject to sheva mitzvos bnai Noach, since they are clearly not Bnai Noach.

    #1822102

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Goldilocks: What about the theory that alients visited the earth thousands of years ago…..but I guess that would really make Bnai Noach the progeny of Martians but that too couldn’t be possible since that doesn’t fit in with our beliefs regarding briyas olam. Oh well, probably easier to speculate on YD’s shaylah as to whether the Martians daven nusach ashkenaz or Sephard.

    #1822138

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    ” What about the theory that alients visited the earth thousands of years ago”

    Only a heretic would believe such narishkeit

    #1822148

    akuperma
    Participant

    RebbeDebbie: an alien is a non-citizen, and in modern usage, a non-human. Clearly those whom the call refer to as “Angels” qualify. There are also discussions of various sentient non-humans in our traditions. Its easy to see where the goyim wouldn’t have gotten the idea of “alien visitors” from. We aren’t allowed to learn kabbalah with them, so we’ll have to let them go around being confused and foolish. The same would go to discussing whether HaShem would have told us (or whether we would have understood) if sentients beings were created outside of our own planet (world, universe, etc.).

    #1822123

    samthenylic
    Participant

    The theory of “Martians” i.e. extraterrestials, may be what the Torah calls “Nefilim”, angels who misbehaved, and were banished down into our world.
    The “Dor Hamabul” and Og Melech Boskon were their descendants.

    #1822343

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Debbie: We know that there is no shidduch crisis on the other planets so perhaps there is something we can learn from them. Is it apikorsus to believe that the Ebeshter has not also created life on other planets, albeit with different forms and minhagim than ours?

    #1823403

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    “We know that there is no shidduch crisis on the other planets so perhaps there is something we can learn from them.”

    How do we “know” this exactly?

    #1823556

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Since the underlying question in this thread is whether there are “intelligent yidden” on other planets, the supposition is that for there to be yidden (intelligent or otherwise) there would have been empty bottles of schnopps floating ashore on some beach somewhere with kvitlach containing the name(s) of a martian maidlach with outstanding midos and a father-in-law with money. A competent shadchan would clearly have advertised here on earth if he had a lovely young martian looking for her beschert.

    #1823597

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Wouldn’t martians still be subject to Sheva Mitzvot B’nai Noach??

    Yes. And therefore the LR’s argument is that they would need to know about the Torah, and since they can’t know about it therefore they must not exist. My question is that until recently the same was true for the vast majority of humanity on this planet, who undoubtedly existed, and were obliged to obey the 7MBN, and yet had no way to find out about them.

    (Remember that it is not sufficient for a BN to keep the 7 mitzvos because he figured them out himself and they make sense to him. He must keep them because Hashem commanded them to Moshe Rabbenu, in the Torah. And for this he must have heard of Moshe and of the Torah.

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