are you oiver "lifnei iver lo setain michshol" by giving …?

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  • #615481

    shpitzfrum
    Member

    are you oiver “lifnei iver lo setain michshol” by giving an underage person a ciggarete or bottle of wine?

    #1072935

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    What do you think?

    #1072936

    i dont know but you may be killing them

    #1072937

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Ask your Rov.

    #1072938

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Or yourself.

    #1072940

    yentachaya
    Participant

    Medically, it’s not a question. Alcohol and tobacco are dangerous substances in a child’s body.

    Legally, most definitely. They are underage and can get in big trouble with the law.

    Halachically, ask your LOR.

    #1072941

    147
    Participant

    are you oiver “lifnei iver lo setain michshol” by giving …?,/em> If the poor [wo]man collecting is still going to buy cigarettes with the Tzedoko you give him/her, you are absolutely being oiver “lifnei iver lo setain michshol”, since you are assisting this fellow in his/her bid to commit suicide R’L.

    #1072942

    son
    Member

    Why would you think there’s any less lifnei iver if you buy someone of age a pack?

    #1072943

    eric55
    Participant

    Im not a poisek but i dont see lifnei iver being relevant in this case. lifnei iver is putting a stumbling block in front of someone who is totally oblivious to his surroundings. I would liken it to intentionally giving someone bad business advice or any bad advice. If someone is asking you for a cigarette he already smokes and knows the dangers i cant see lifnei iver maybe something else. I would liken this to putting a stumbling block in front of someone who can see and in stead of walking around it he intentionally trips overs it

    #1072944

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Eric, there are (at least) two categories of lifnei iver.

    1) Bad advice

    2) Helping do an issur

    The second type of lifnei iver applies even when the person is aware of the issur.

    #1072945

    akuperma
    Participant

    Is there a halachic issue with drinking or smoking (at proper times, of course)? Current science generally disapproves of tobacco (that wasn’t always the case, people were prescribed use of tobacco products as recently as the 20th century), and alcohol is still suggested by many reputable physicians. Neither substance is banned in the United States, meaning the Congress and state legislatures have considered the matter and believe their use should be lawful (whereas marijuana is banned by federal statute). Is this an issue of Dina malchusa dina (the American laws ban these to minors)? As long as a kid is older enough to know what alcohol and tobacco are, how is this analagous to a “blind” person.

    #1072946

    theprof1
    Participant

    There’s a big difference between alcohol and smoking. Are you not allowed to give a child wine from kiddush? Or even a little extra. Are you oiver lifnei iver by giving a 17 year a shot of whiskey? Does age here make a difference? Giving anybody a cigarette may qualify as lifnei iver since it’s widely accepted, but ignored by smokers, that smoking is quite unhealthy. Alcohol, on the other hand, is only harmful if its use is abusive.

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