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80% of the Jews were left behind in Egypt, during Yetzias Mitzrayim. Because they were bad apples.
ARE YOU PART OF THE 80% OR 20%?
neither…i wasnt alive at that time period…
What ended up happening with the 80% left behind? Did they simply assimilate into the Egyptians?
After Matan Torah, no Jew can be left behind.
Neither. I didn’t leave Mitzrayim.
Will 80% (or whatever percent our bad apples happen to represent at the time) be left behind during the Geula?
It’s musser haskel. Even if a majority of the klal are engaged in sin, a vast majority can be all wrong and punished (even destroyed r’l, if necessary).
Don’t follow the majority. Do what’s right.
They died by Makkat Choshech.
I’m not even good enough to have belonged to the 80%. So I certainly would not have been redeemed.
The Wolf
Wolf: Mathematics disagree with you– unless you’re a closet Mitzri.
Wolf: Mathematics disagree with you– unless you’re a closet Mitzri.
Not unless you’re talking about estimates. Or do you think that *precisely* 4 out of every 5 people died (are you even sure that the number of Jews then was evenly divisible by 5?)
By the same logic, I could be a lone individual and still be not up to the 80%.
The Wolf
Too important to be ignored.
After Matan Torah, no Jew can be left behind.
Logician: What is your source for that assertion?
Well, Wolf, if you want to get into technicalities, some say that the passuk which mentions that they brought ‘chamushim’ means that each family brought their family plus the children of four other families who were among the 80%. If that’s really how it worked, then 80% must not have been an exaggeration.
You misunderstood my point.
My point wasn’t that 4 out of 5 was an exaggeration — my point is that it’s possible that it was an approximation. It’s just as likely that 79.88% or 80.11% died.
As such, I could conceivably not be a Mitzri and yet not be worthy enough to fall into to “80%.”
The Wolf
Any Sefer that talks about these things, really. Would need to check things up for chapter and verse. Bal Yidach mimeni nidach. Kares doesn’t mean completely, permanently cut off either.
Those that are in the mishnah on Perek Chelek is a complicated issue.
Except Osoh HaIsh. He’s gone.
Whoops, I meant “approximation.” Thanks for reminding me.
And I got it from a vort on the parsha my dad told me. I can ask him later where he got it but he’s not home right now so it’s not really practical.
Probably the Be’er Yosef, based on the Targum Yonason.
We do not write off large numbers of Jews.
In business, assets that are no longer useful need to be written off to have an accurate picture of the business financials.
We cannot do this with our fellow Jews.
Teshuvah is always possible, and if not in the present generation,then in future generations.
Just like those in Egypt who maintained their national identity even if they sunk into idolatry were redeemed, so Jews nowadays even if completely secular but they keep a national identity and marry other Jews can be part of the full final redemption.
Logician, there are numerous sources that the time of the Redemption is going to be a time of great judgement. May HaShem have mercy on the Yidden! The Zohar says there is going to be a makka to kill out those Jews who do not want Moshiach to come. “And who can bear the day of his coming, and who will stand when he is revealed…”(Malachi).
Josh31, 80% of the Jews were killed during makas choshech.
Logicia, what’s so wrong with oso ish? It was Paul who got it really rolling. Besides, neither killed anybody.
I try to always be optimistic.
Perhaps such destruction is behind us?
We certainly had much destruction in the past century.
NJLB
mdd – way too complicated for this forum, sorry, I keep on posting things like that, gotta stop. But what does killing have to do with anything ? I don’t care what historians say bout him, Paul, or anyone. I care what Chazal and our Chachamim (Ramchal for example) said, and they put him in a special category of his own.
Judgement, yes. Who says that includes anyone being lost for good ?
if geula is based on level of observance and affiliation with torah judaism, in order to make up 20% you would probably have to include all denominations of orthodox jews and a large portion of conservative jews and some reform jews as well.
Take the US as a base. Eliminate 10% of the jewish people in the united states who are jewish but do not know it because their mother was completely unaffiliated. Eliminate another 30% or so atheist american jews and youre at 40%. Eliminate another 20% of jews that are not atheists but not affiliated with any synagogue or organized religion and inter-married jews and youre at 60%. Now eliminate the 20% most extreme non-observant jews of the reform movement and conservative movement and youre at 80%.
i am not sure that the other jews would even be interested in joining a jewish people in the middle east living by jewish standards.
Logician , he was not a bigger rasha than many Tanach and Second Beis HaMikdash reshoim. Btw, Ramo holds it is muttar for a Goy to be a Notzri.
Is there an Exodus taking place right now that I’m not aware of…?
mdd- You don’t understand that rishus is not always measured by how big the aveirah on its own, but by what it represents in the larger picture. He came to undermine the true emunah in a way that totally pushed out of the Jewish people. That’s why he’s in boiling excrement (Gemara Gittin) – he’s the waste product of Judaism.
The Halachic question is about a goy believing in “shituf”. That has no bearing on our question.
There is a famous story about a Rebbe (forgot which one) who said that he could bring Moshiach right then but many Yidden will not be Zoche to join in. One talmid said to the Rebbe, “Forget about those Yidden, we really need Moshiach”. And the Rebbe replied, “YOU are one of those who will be left out!” That was the end of the talmid trying to get the Rebbe to bring Moshiach.
May we all be zoche…
SiDi™
So was it good that we left Egypt, even though 80% were left behind?
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