Assur to HOLD a smart phone ???

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  • #604537

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I was in Lakewood and I had some picture from a wedding on my smartphone.

    It seemed some refused to even hold the smartphone to look at the pictures and others refused to hold the smart phone to look up a phone #?

    Is this the new “Chumra” at least in Lakewood that its Assur to HOLD a smartphone. (They were ok with my using the smartphone for looking up information for them)

    #1197611

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    zahavasdad – I caught my son holding a smart phone and I made him give me his shoes for a whole week.

    #1197612

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    ZD:

    Had someone else taken a picture with them holding a smartphone and sent it in to their children’s school (or if the picture was casually seen by the Hanhala), they would have to look for a new school.

    Can you blame them for being careful?

    #1197613

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Perhaps they just did not trust you.

    #1197614

    mewho
    Participant

    please be sure to post when the smart phone bon fires will take place.

    i would like to offer to take some and distribute tehm to people who need them.

    i remember the sheitel burning (what a joke) and figure smart phones are next in line.

    thanks for the info

    #1197615

    HaKatan
    Participant

    Assuming they hold it’s assur to own one, I can see their logic.

    1. A passerby may think it’s theirs. It’s like walking into a treif restaurant (to use the bathroom).

    2. Theoretically, they can commit the same aveiros on your phone as they could on their own device.

    Whereas by you using it, none of these “maris ayin”, etc. issues exist. They otherwise have no problem with technology. So they’re more than happy for you to look things up for them as they, too, recognize the value and utility provided by your device.

    #1197616

    GeshmakMan
    Participant

    Lifi Shitascha, Smart phones must be ok and muttar, b/c there are “frum” Apps for them!

    #1197617

    gefen
    Participant

    “(They were ok with my using the smartphone for looking up information for them)”

    I guess they think they’re frummer than you. It’s ok for you to hold it and use it but not them chas v’shalom.

    I never heard this new “chumra” but there are always new ones coming out so I’m not surprised.

    Ask them to pose for a picture that you will take with your smartphone! See what happens. 😉

    #1197618

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    I dunno, but I’m in Lakewood right now holding a smart phone and not getting any stares.

    #1197619

    MorahRach
    Member

    I don’t know but.. My friend lives in Lakewood and her husband is in BMG, and SHE has an android. ( he does not).

    #1197620

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Are you sure you weren’t in Chelm?

    #1197621

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    They trusted me, they all knew me and knew I wouldnt give them anything they shouldnt be seeing.

    this occured in a private house and everyone knew everyone there, so Moris Ayin would not have applied.

    #1197622

    I dunno, but I’m in Lakewood right now holding a smart phone and not getting any stares.

    They just can’t tell it’s a smartphone.

    #1197623

    mewho
    Participant

    some of these threads must come from chelm

    #1197624

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    some of these threads must come from chelm

    Sometimes I wonder if there are real followers of the Rebbe of Chelm

    #1197625

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    I heard some famous Rabbi said if you see someone holding a smartphone smash it! May not be true….its only a rumor

    #1197626

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    zdad – I think what happened was that these guys were doing things they shouldn’t have on smartphones and their wives said, “You so much as TOUCH a smartphone and you can start packing your bags!!!” They were just honoring their wives.

    #1197627

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shopping: I certainly hope that no one said that. If he did, that Rabbi would be obligated to reimburse anyone whose phone was smashed by a follower of his.

    #1197628

    Bowwow
    Participant

    Smartphones are only allowed to use the various banking apps that allow you to mkae payments for tuition or to the institutions that ban smartphone existance.

    “They were ok with my using the smartphone for looking up information for them”

    These must be the children of the hypocrites whose parents wouldn’t have a TV in the house but sent them over to my house to watch TV when they needed some alone time.

    #1197629

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    A couple of them were a Bochers, but a Bochers over 18

    The others were married men whom I seriosuly doubt was abusing the internet and I doubt their wives would not trust them like that.

    Every one was an adult. I would treat internet use for children like I do Liquor for children, the parents must approve to my face and if the parents arent there I wont let them

    #1197630

    SL1
    Member

    This is one of the causes of the modern day OTD syndrome. When instead of making logical and sensible rules like one may not browse indecent websites or use the internet at all we go overboard and make insensible and unreasonable rules like one may not even hold a smartphone, then eventually the rule will be questioned and abandoned totally. But if the rule was sensible in the first place then it is more likely to last. Anybody agree or disagree?

    #1197631

    Bowwow
    Participant

    SL1 +1 Well said.

    #1197632

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I saw them again tonite and I asked for a clarification

    It seems there is some sort of rules for the Bochrim not to use the phone so they wont be tempted to get one.

    I asked the Married men why they wont hold a phone and I was told it was like building a fence, One needs a fence to protect oneself sometimes

    #1197633

    cshapiro
    Member

    lakewoods a big place but most of the people here i know have a smart phone….some even have a filter!!

    the people i dont know personally are the ones who stare and dont know how to drive….but this is not a lakewood venting thread so i wont go off topic

    #1197634

    more
    Member

    cshapiro, why do you live in a place that you hate. Why don’t you go live somewhere that you like?

    #1197635

    more
    Member

    I asked the Married men why they wont hold a phone and I was told it was like building a fence, One needs a fence to protect oneself sometimes

    Posted 1 hour ago #

    Chava told the snake that he wasn’t even allowed to touch the apple tree, the snake pushed chava into the APPLE tree, and shckingly enough nothing happened. so she thought if I touched the tree and noth happened I wonder what will happen if I eat the apple… she used the smartphone and she and her husband were banished from lakewood!

    #1197636

    mom12
    Participant

    more- lol

    how true.

    SL1 I most certainly agree with you.

    If one wants to ‘build a fence’ for HIMSELF only- GREAT

    No one should be building fences for others… Thats how one develops OTD syndrome. as SL1 said

    #1197637

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I dont hear it that way at all. I was a bit skeptical about their behavior and reasoning but it sounds to me like they made their own fences to strengthen themselves, and didn’t hold their noses or gasp when you offered. I have a lot of respect for people who make their own fences and it isn’t fair to compare it to Chava who did no such thing. I would LOVE to have a smart phone and every time I play with one I want it more. The only thing stopping me is my desire to be a different kind of role model to my kids.

    I have family and friends on all parts of the orthodox spectrum and I do find that those who have all the tchachkes are the ones who say there is nothing wrong with it. It may be so, but I cannot believe they are speaking objectively.

    #1197638

    HaKatan
    Participant

    “more”:

    I wasn’t exactly clear on what point you were making. However:

    By comparing smartphones to Chava, why bother with Muktzeh? After all, it’s only a siyag.

    While Chava may have erred in that particular instance, Pirkei Avos does advise “VaAsu Siyag LaTorah”.

    Chazal also say to be miod miod zahir in inyanim of arayos, whereas that lashon was not used by the Eitz HaDaas.

    Again, I see their logic even if it’s not a universal standard.

    #1197639

    TheGoq
    Participant

    I thought it was a quince not an apple.

    #1197640

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Sam2 the smasher does not owe anything neither does the Rabbi. That is according to this Rabbi, the rumor is its so bad you can do it on shabbos!

    #1197641

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    When someone bought an iphone he showed it to his friend how cool it was, His friend say, Hey this is cool and got one himeself and so the allure of the iPhone spread everyone said it was cool and everyone wanted one.

    Its the same with this chumra. The man took a personal chumra . he then tells his friend about his personal chumra and the friend says, Hey thats a great idea and also adopts this chumra and so it spreads.

    At some point it hits the leadership and they say , hey this is a great idea and impose this chumra on the entire community even among those who do not like it.

    And Yes the SMASHER does owe for the phone, You cannot break someone elses property for your own personal halacha. BTW it was a chassidic rov so its unlikely a non-member of that chassidic group would break a non-members phone

    #1197642

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shopping: No. The Rabbi is wrong. Even if you hold that a smartphone is absolutely Assur to use it is not Assur B’hana’ah. Therefore it has value to someone who owns it, even if he is not permitted to use it. He could sell it or even make it into a very expensive paperweight. A Rabbi who tells someone that they are allowed to be Mazik is Chayav to pay (the person listening to the Rabbi is an Annus). Therefore, the Rabbi would have to reimburse anyone who had his phone damaged because of this “p’sak”. (I heard about 10 years ago that R’ Elyashiv had a similar Shaila where a Ba’al T’shuvah threw his parents’ television set out the window and R’ Elyashiv said he was Chayav to pay because it’s not Assur B’hana’ah.)

    #1197643

    So a Rav did say that?

    #1197644

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Yes, he did. But ge was chassidish…..

    #1197645

    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    The way I see it, he is a germophobe. Do you know ALL the places people use their smart phone? I’ve heard people use them in the bathroom (the sound effects when one plays games or talking to someone). So I don’t blame them for not wanting to touch a smart phone that may be host to thousands of germs and bacteria etc.

    ;

    #1197646

    Mammele
    Participant

    Zdad, most people aren’t looking to constantly add chumros to their lives, we have enough mitzvos to keep. If I decided to say 20 kapitlech tehillim every day to bring the geula and went around telling everybody about it (which the guys actually only told you the reasoning behind their “chumra” when you asked, although it was done publicly ) would you also have a problem with it?

    #1197647

    mw13
    Participant

    Some people here seem quite irked at this episode, and I’d like to know why. These men in Lakewood did not go around forcing their chumros on anybody else; they were merely machmir on themselves. What issue could anybody possibly have with that?

    SL1:

    “This is one of the causes of the modern day OTD syndrome. When instead of making logical and sensible rules like one may not browse indecent websites or use the internet at all we go overboard and make insensible and unreasonable rules like one may not even hold a smartphone, then eventually the rule will be questioned and abandoned totally. But if the rule was sensible in the first place then it is more likely to last. Anybody agree or disagree?”

    I agree that making unreasonable rules leads people to abandon the rules entirely; however, that’s simply not what happened here. Nobody tried to enforce their chumros on anybody else here; they were only machmir themselves. And to do so is a beautiful thing that should be commended, not bashed.

    more:

    The very first Mishna in Avos says “uhsue siyug la’Torah”, make a fence for the Torah. To suggest that the Medrash about Chava is meant to tell us not to have chumros (or to have less chumros) is simply not true, and is a gross distortion of the values put forth by the Torah.

    #1197648

    Sam2
    Participant

    mw13: The only people who can make a Syag are the undisputed leaders of the generation on everybody or an individual can chose to abstain from something himself (see, however, what the Aggadic Sefarim say about the Nazir V’yeish L’yashev B’arichus). However, when someone unilaterally imposes a Chumra on others is when we get the lesson from the story of the Nachash. The difference should be fairly clear.

    #1197649

    TheMusicMan
    Participant

    I have a friend who put the standard iPhone ringtone (“Marimba”, it can be found on ipod nanos too) on his kosher phone. You should see the stares he gets when his phone rings.

    #1197650

    mw13
    Participant

    Sam2 – I was not at all advocating unilaterally imposing chumros on the unwilling; I was simply pointing out that to say the Medrash is telling us not to have chumros is absolutely ridiculous. The Medrash only teaches us that we must differentiate between a siyug and an issur, and act accordingly.

    #1197651

    mw13
    Participant
    #1197652

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    mw13 -+1 for both posts on this thread.

    #1197653

    huju
    Participant

    Would someone arrange for a respected rabbi, or a large group of rabbis, to issue a posek that it is assur to hold a smartphone while driving. It will save lives. Then get the goyim to go to work on their priests, ministers, imams and zen masters.

    #1197654

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Huju – I believe it’s been done. I think I have seen psakim that it’s assur to use a cell phone while driving.

    #1197655

    Have you seen a psak against speeding, or turning without signaling?

    #1197656

    mik5
    Participant

    Maris ayin applies even in the innermost chamber.

    It would be maris ayin b/c someone might think the phone is theirs, etc.

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