January 11, 2013 12:23 am at 12:23 am #607775
Would it not be assur to make anything other than a entirely positive review of a frum establishment on Yelp (or any web review/rating site), due to loshon hora?
In fact, would it not be assur to even read (non-positive) reviews of such establishments for the very same reason?January 11, 2013 2:50 am at 2:50 am #918964
It would not be assur. It would, however, be assur to have a poorly run establishment, since that is basically stealing money, stealing “daas”, and causing grief to other Jews.January 11, 2013 4:00 am at 4:00 am #918965
If it was indeed assur to post negative reviews, it would also be assur to post positive reviews.January 11, 2013 4:06 am at 4:06 am #918966
In fact, would it not be assur to even read (non-positive) reviews of such establishments for the very same reason?
How would you know the review is not positive without reading it?
The WolfJanuary 11, 2013 4:15 am at 4:15 am #918967
V. Meshuganar: Sure it would be assur. Why shouldn’t it be?January 11, 2013 5:10 am at 5:10 am #918968
V. Meshuganar: Sure it would be assur. Why shouldn’t it be?
So, if you already knew the answer, why ask the question?
The WolfJanuary 11, 2013 5:38 am at 5:38 am #918969
It’s Joseph’s MO. He does it in about half the threads he starts.January 11, 2013 5:40 am at 5:40 am #918970
WM: To understand if and why anyone might disagree. There was no why’s provided by the respondent I addressed. (And I don’t believe any why’s will hold water, but would like to hear any theories.)
Regarding your first question, indeed you wouldn’t know beforehand if there are any negatives. [Though it is reasonable to assume most places with more than a few reviews will likely contain some negatives.] Since you know there might be loshon hora among the reviews, you ought to refrain from reading them.January 11, 2013 6:14 am at 6:14 am #918971
Writing a review of a place that happens to be negative is the responsible thing to do when you’ve been the victim of bad service and bad treatment.
You’d save many yidden from financial loss/hefsed merubeh possibly, as well as heartache by warning them of which places to avoid.
I’ve sadly wasted hundreds of dollars over the past few years eating in bad restaurants, for an example.January 11, 2013 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #918972
Never understood why people insist on protecting an incompetent and not the frum Jew who could be wasting hard earned dollars because people didst warn him because of l.h.January 11, 2013 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #918973
Ask your LOR, but as long as you are 100% truthful, I imagine this is the very definition of “Toeles”. Of course, you probably want to make sure that your data is still current when you post, and follow all other Halachos of the SA.January 11, 2013 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #918974
If someone wanted a New Car and asked you about a certain dealer, That you knew to be a crook or dishonest. Its not Loshon haroh to tell the truth
The same on Yelp , if you know a certain restuarant has bad food and the service is lousy you are allowed to tell someone who asks.
Someone browsing on Yelp is just asking people what they think of the place and just like you tell about the New Car Dealer, you tell about the restaurant with lousy food and lousy serviceJanuary 11, 2013 2:34 pm at 2:34 pm #918975
And FYI on places like Tripadvisor and yelp smart businesses monitor the site for reviews and if there are bad reviews take it as Chizuk (you can usually tell if the gripes are legit or not) and try to do better next timeJanuary 11, 2013 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #918976
Ask you LOR if you can even go to non-frum websites such as Yelp.January 11, 2013 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #918977
Never understood why people insist on protecting an incompetent and not the frum Jew who could be wasting hard earned dollars because people didst warn him because of l.h.
Because people figure that they don’t know when it is muttar, so they’ll stay safe by doing nothing.
It isn’t at all clear that you stay safe by doing nothing–especially when it is for shidduchim–but that’s how people think.January 11, 2013 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #918978
It is certainly and unquestionably assur to post a negative review on a subjective matter such as how the food tasted at a restaurant.January 11, 2013 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #918979
Regarding your first question, indeed you wouldn’t know beforehand if there are any negatives. [Though it is reasonable to assume most places with more than a few reviews will likely contain some negatives.] Since you know there might be loshon hora among the reviews, you ought to refrain from reading them.
So, I also take it then that you’re not allowed to ask a friend about a restaurant, a store or other service provider, since they might give a negative review. Have you *never* asked someone before going to a restaurant, a doctor, calling a plumber or a contractor, hired a photographer or a band, or *anything* else?
The WolfJanuary 11, 2013 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #918980
If you saw a person go into a restaurant on Shabbos who you knew was the owner and turned on the light
Later a friend asked you if that resturant was Kosher, would you tell them what you saw or not
Now lets say you were at the same restaurant and you saw roaches on the wall and a friend asked you what you thought of the restaurant.
Is it OK to tell people about the Mechalel Shabbos but not about the RoachesJanuary 11, 2013 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #918981
zdad: You are correct, and it is appropriate to say lashon hara when it is l’toeles.
Most people are not interested in worrying about it though, so they just say “I don’t know”.
But, as it happens, most people I know would say if someone asked them in person. We’re just not comfortable posting it on the internet.January 11, 2013 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #918982
PBA, I think its just a generational thin.
Some people are comfortable on the internet sites like Yelp and tripavisor and some are not.
The younger people I know are comfortable with this , but the older not so muchJanuary 11, 2013 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #918983
Maybe. But I don’t think that really explains it.
If I go to a restaurant and it’s rotten, I’ll tell you. But no way I’d write it on the internet. I’m just not that sure about it to spread it to the whole world like that.
Does that really make sense? I don’t know. But that’s how it is.January 11, 2013 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #918984
Ctrl Alt DelParticipant
If it turns out you wrote a bad review, you have then wrote Lashon haraa and you will join the likes of The Wolf who, by his own admission many, many times on this board is an absolute sinner since he is clearly asking people’s opinions on goods/services and putting a “stumbling block” of front of folks should they have a bad opinion of someone/something.
If its a good review, well, then clearly the restaurateur paid you off.January 11, 2013 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #918985
The reason telling a person directly may be muttar is because it is l’toeles. Posting it on the Internet, on the other hand, and it certainly will be seen by people who it isn’t toeles to let know. Thus the issur of L”H remains.
Similar, in a way, by shidduchim where you are allowed to tell someone information l’toeles ONLY if you know he will not spread the information. Otherwise you cannot tell him, even if it is legitimately l’toeles for him, if he will then tell others who it isn’t relevant to.January 11, 2013 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #918986
If there was a restaurant that you wanted to go to , and nobody you knew had eaten there
Wouldnt you want to know if it was an overpriced roach motel with Bad food and rude waiters.
People arent reading Yelp reviews because of L’H, they are reading them because they want to eat at the restaurant
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