March 3, 2011 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #595473
I was wondering how important yichus is? I guess my main question is, would you immediately turn down a shidduch offer to a boy who is a baal teshuva, or would you give it a shot, or at least consider it. He has learnt in regular yeshivas since bar mitzvah and has been frum since 13 and is a regular, frum, good bochur, and comes from a nice family although not frum. Please let me hear your responses, thanks.March 3, 2011 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #752383ImaofthreeParticipant
what are hidduchim? LOL. I would consider it from my daughters if it was right for them. just because someone has yicchus doesn’t mean they have good middos.March 3, 2011 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #752384ImaofthreeParticipant
meant to write I would consider it FOR my daughters.March 4, 2011 12:12 am at 12:12 am #752385
I wont answer the question, since its not directly relevant to me, nor can I imagine it to be a “one size fits all” answer.
However, one point if I may. Whatever decision you make, it should be made prior to dating the prospective shidduch. It is unfair to you and to the boy to date when you are uncertain about whether his background, on its own, will hinder his chances of a successful dating run (culminating in marriage).
The dating process should be solely to determine the suitability of the prospective couple.
May you find your zivug soon.
About the actual question though: Some girls feel they need a frum family/in-laws for the success of their marriage, while to others its not relevant, as they feel they can be successful with as long as he is a “good, frum bochur”. Each one has a right to their needs and emotional makeup.March 4, 2011 12:15 am at 12:15 am #752386pascha bchochmaMember
No, I would actually like such a boy, they are generally much deeper than regular frum boys and have been frum long enough that there is no difference.March 4, 2011 2:07 am at 2:07 am #752387
thanks for your responses everyone. to pascha bchochma, what do you mean, that they are much deeper? Also, Is it looked at funny in the frum world, if an ffb marries a BT?March 4, 2011 2:48 am at 2:48 am #752388s2021Member
Personally, I would specifically want to date a BT as long as regular means wer on the same page religious wise, and hes like “settled” into who he is.. I think they posess certain strengths u dont necessarily see in “always frum” fams.. Yiddishkeit is more real, thought out, important to him.. As long as the fam is eccepting and respectfull w good middos.. I think BTs are catch..!March 4, 2011 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #752389pascha bchochmaMember
shorosh: Their Emunah can be deeper and their determination as well since they may have overcome more challenges. Every person is different – I’m just making generalizations.March 4, 2011 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #752390mikehall12382Member
“I would actually like such a boy, they are generally much deeper than regular frum boys and have been frum long enough that there is no difference.”
from my experience with BT’s this holds very true….
shorosh: Their Emunah can be deeper and their determination as well since they may have overcome more challenges.
very true….March 9, 2011 12:55 am at 12:55 am #752391sayidMember
I actually know quite a few BT boys who married FFB girls. I guess it just all depends on the person.March 9, 2011 1:21 am at 1:21 am #752392
Based upon a closed thread I’d add: make sure he has a rebbe who he listens to.March 9, 2011 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #752393
Shorosh, et al; How about an FFB Bochur dating a girl from a BT or (NYF) family?! A(n) already observant family shouldn’t be a problem at all. Unless your life is running so smooth that you have no financial or Chinuch problems (Or, already solved them, all.) that your main preoccupation (after returning from Winter vacation in Florida or Palm Springs.) is Kovod and Yichus. But the rest of us, average people should be open to suggestions from all segments of Ehrlich Yidden.March 23, 2011 2:00 am at 2:00 am #752394
Hi, I am the original poster. I am sorry to bother you guys, but I still need some more advice, or suggestions about this shidduch. It sounds good, but im just nervous to jump into it. thank you.March 23, 2011 2:14 am at 2:14 am #752395
Shorosh; IMHO you should (If all the Positives about the bochur are as you described) walk into this shidduch “With Your Eyes Closed”. Avraham Avinu came from a non-Frum family, too. His Father didn’t send him to Yeshiva, either. His “Mechutan and Daughter-in-Law’s brother (Our Uncle and Great Grandfather) were both crooks. One of his grandchildren became a hunter. (That is one of the better occupations in his life.) Yet, here we are Am Yisrael, B”H. “Yichus” alone is worth nothing. Race horses have a pedigree, too.March 23, 2011 2:19 am at 2:19 am #752396popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Avraham Avinu came from a non-Frum family, too. His Father didn’t send him to Yeshiva, either. His “Mechutan and Daughter-in-Law’s brother (Our Uncle and Great Grandfather) were both crooks.
I prefer not to extrapolate things like this from the Avos, but if you must, you should also notice that his one son became a rasha and is the father of the Arabs, another grandson was a rasha and his family became amalek.
So, if we are going the yichus track here, I am not sure the results were too great.March 23, 2011 2:23 am at 2:23 am #752397frumeyidParticipant
PLEASE ask a competent Rabbi that is familiar with your situation. You will get a much better answer that from us anonymous posters. Hatzlacha!!! I hope it works out well for you.March 23, 2011 2:27 am at 2:27 am #752398
shorosh: Are you nervous about shidduchim in general, or just this particular shidduch?
If its about this particular shidduch, what is it that you’re uncertain about? Is it him and his religious understanding and commitment? Is it about how you may be viewed? Please elaborate.March 23, 2011 2:43 am at 2:43 am #752399
From what I was told he is a great guy, great middos, a good learner, etc.. I was also told that his family is very nice. i know that he is very frum and frumkeit is very important to him. I guess its just the peer pressure or what everyone will say, That I am dating a BT or get engaged to a BT. You know how people speak and talk behind your back, right?March 23, 2011 2:46 am at 2:46 am #752400
PBA; Precisely my point. Namely. That “Yichus” alone is worth nothing. Or at least the way it’s applied by the Heimishe Oylom. (With negative connotations, reflecting on the entire family.) I was personally reluctant to put the Avos and Imahos Ha-Kedoshim in such perspective. But sometimes you have to juxtapose a certain situation in order to make a learning point. I, B”H graduated from the Parsha of Shidduchim. B”H married off all the children. But I learned a lot in the process.March 23, 2011 2:56 am at 2:56 am #752401s2021Member
Whoooooa.. DO Not jump into any shidduch ever!! Marriage is 4 life!! NEVER go into a shidduch with ur eyes closed!! After ur married, u will have ur whole life to close ur eyes to the things u dont like about Hubby- take a carefull look now.. (and I dont mean be petty- duh) Ppl dont realize when dating how huge marriage is..March 23, 2011 3:19 am at 3:19 am #752402brotherofursParticipant
his yichus doesn’t affect what kind of person HE is, if you heard from someone that he may be the right one for your daughter then go for itMarch 23, 2011 5:01 am at 5:01 am #752403cleverjewishpunMember
“I guess its just the peer pressure or what everyone will say, That I am dating a BT or get engaged to a BT. You know how people speak and talk behind your back, right?”
Well that statement says it all, it says how every girl/boy of marriageable age is terrified of breaking ranks (even if its the best thing for them) It also tells me that while everyone pays lip service to the concept of Teshuva, no one really thinks you can ever bury the past.
Dont get into the shidduch like your doing him a favor because your a FFB and he’s just a lowly BT
He’s probably too good for you.March 23, 2011 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #752404
Shoresh: There are two types of peer pressure, one good and one, um, “otherwise”.
Peer pressure to do what’s wrong or refrain from doing the correct thing, is bad.
Peer pressure can also keep a person in check, and hold them back from doing something incorrect.
If a person says “I don’t care so much about the Yiddishkeit of the person I marry, as long as I’m happy”, then PP can be good.
If you’re for real, disscuss with a teacher etc.
(I know I’ll probably be accused of sinas chinom and other goodies. Please read my posts in the other thread prior to doing that. Just writing the way I see it, in this case..)March 23, 2011 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #752405tomim tihyeMember
If the only hesitation is the talking and gawking…you yourself know the right thing to do.
Many FFB girls tell me they want to marry someone like my husband. I ask them if they would get past his “resume”- he had been frum for about six years when we met.
Sure, when we got engaged, people questioned my decision and did plenty of squawking…but they’re just a bunch of chickens.March 23, 2011 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #752406
if you are the kind of person who worries about what people will think, a BT is probably not a good fit for you. Most BTs do not blend perfectly into the FFB world. Their backgrounds are different, and it shows. Almost always there will be something that “gives them away” even when they try their best to fit in.
Some of my best friends are BTs. They are people of courage who endured all types of challenges in order to live frum lives. If you can’t appreciate that, stick with FFBs.March 23, 2011 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #752407
Most BTs do not blend perfectly into the FFB world. Their backgrounds are different, and it shows.
In my limited experience, its not always the case. Either way, she’s not going to hide her in-laws are.March 23, 2011 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #752408oomisParticipant
I married a BT from a wonderful, albeit totally frei family. Go into a shidduch, ANY shidduch, with open eyes and ears. He may be the perfect guy for you, or for reasons that may resonate only with you, not be a good choice. When you marry someone, you DO marry his family, upbringing, extended family as well, unless you live so far away from the irreligious relatives, that they have no impact on you.
Still, I would not have married my husband had he not had the middos that he observed in his parents’ home. So you need to find out about the family situation – are they supportive of his frumkeit (VERY important to know this in advance), or will they give you grief the first time you do not attend a family Bar Mitzvah that is more bar than mitzvah? Are they good people bein adam l’chaveiro. Is the ONLY negative that they are not shomrei Shabbos? If the answers to these questions are in concert with what you are looking for, then go for it. A boy who is frum from age 13, sounds solid to me.March 23, 2011 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #752409☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
or will they give you grief the first time you do not attend a family Bar Mitzvah that is more bar than mitzvah?
Good line. I also agree with the sentiment.March 23, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #752410Sister BearMember
Most BTs do not blend perfectly into the FFB world. Their backgrounds are different, and it shows.
Not necessarily true. I know a lot of BT’s that nobody would ever guess that are BT and they are perfectly fine, respectable people among the very yeshivish and FFB’s.March 25, 2011 2:13 am at 2:13 am #752411
SB, respectable is not the issue.
If an FFB girl is going to cringe every time her husband slips & shows his BT background, she shouldn’t date BTs.March 25, 2011 2:16 am at 2:16 am #752412
Please don’t dump all people who came closer to Torah later in life in one bin. Each individual is very different.March 25, 2011 4:25 am at 4:25 am #752413
TBT, SB, maybe I did not express myself clearly.
We know that Shorosh is uncomfortable with the possibility that people will realize she is engaged/married to a BT and make remarks about it.
I am saying that this IS something that could very well occur. Even if he has the whole yeshivish FFB lingo down pat, his background is part of who he is. If someone asks him where his father davens, should he lie? Will Shorosh freak out if he says “My father isn’t frum, he doesn’t daven in shul”? If Shorosh wants an FFB, she can’t marry a BT thinking that he blends in so perfectly that no one will ever know. People will know. If she dates this boy, she needs to make her peace with this.
I hope I did not offend anyone. I hold baalei tshuva in the highest regard, and I know that each one is different. Some are more easily recognized as newcomers to Yiddishkeit, some less so, and some not at all. But an FFB girl needs to be comfortable and should be PROUD of her husband’s BT background, not embarrassed by it.March 25, 2011 4:37 am at 4:37 am #752414oomisParticipant
Good line. I also agree with the sentiment. “
Thanks. We actually went through this, and it was not easy, but eventually my in-laws came to understand our position. But a lot of grief can go under that bridge before understanding is reached. I was lucky – my inlaws were very special and loving people, who were happy their son became frum. It is not always like that.March 25, 2011 9:23 am at 9:23 am #752415rebdonielMember
What if you are a BT or even FFB but have nothing to do with your family?March 25, 2011 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #752416SacrilegeMember
Perfect! No mother-in-law to deal with 🙂March 25, 2011 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #752417rebdonielMember
Seriously. I do not deal with my family at all. Whoever I do marry (if anyone would ever marry someone who doesn’t deal with his family) would have no in-laws to worry about.March 25, 2011 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #752418SacrilegeMember
I was serious.
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