February 28, 2012 6:58 am at 6:58 am #602267blablaParticipant
We have issues every year with stuff that’s baked from mishloach manos-we never know if we can trust the hechsher. What do you say-can we trust most people or just give it to the cleaning lady?February 28, 2012 8:19 am at 8:19 am #857868moreMember
Give it to the Goitte. Even if you trust the hechsher of the person that has given it to you, you still don’t know if it is recycled goods or not… better safe than sorry.February 28, 2012 8:30 am at 8:30 am #857869
Eid Echad Ne’eman B’issurim.February 28, 2012 11:24 am at 11:24 am #857870PosterMember
I cannot decide if I should include a baked item in my mishloach mano this year because some pple get uncomfortable eating other peoples home baked goods, so if they will give it to their goyta why work hard????????February 28, 2012 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #857871NechomahParticipant
I always take care to mark down from which hechsher I made the baked products in the mishloach manos. It’s inconsiderate not to.February 28, 2012 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #857872ha ha ha haMember
Most pple dont recycle home baked goods and if you know for a fact who baked it i don’t see why not enjoy it??February 28, 2012 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #857873tomim tihyeMember
I only give homemade challos to non-frum people so that I know they won’t be wasted.February 28, 2012 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #857874soliekMember
lol some people i know get baked on purim…February 28, 2012 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #857875ImaofthreeParticipant
I love home baked mishloach manos. The kugels and cakes go into my freezer and gets used. The candy goes to the cleaning lady. Only my close friends send baked stuff.February 28, 2012 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #857876No One Mourns The WickedMember
This year we are giving hot pretzels as part of our baseball theme & I made labels stating which hecherim I used..February 28, 2012 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #857877ImaofthreeParticipant
Hot pretzels? YUM! Great idea!February 28, 2012 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #857878No One Mourns The WickedMember
Imaofthree: Yeah 🙂 We’re doing the ‘usual’ baseball themed stuff (CrackerJacks, Beer, Hot Pretzels, & Peanuts)February 29, 2012 1:50 am at 1:50 am #857879writersoulParticipant
We only give to people and get from people whose kashrus we trust. While we use chalav stam during the year, for instance, we don’t on Purim so that everyone can eat the stuff, and the recipients know that.February 29, 2012 2:01 am at 2:01 am #857880ShrekMember
if you’d eat in their house, I’d think you could eat what they send you.February 29, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #857881
sam2 – I don’t see how “eid echod” applies here, and indeed in most such questions these days.
Eid Echod tells you that the person conformed with halachah.
It is clear that different people have different standards in kashrus, and have different opinions about individual hechsheirim. Even if my friend is trying to do the right thing, there is a very real possibility that he uses products/hechsheirim that I don’t use.February 29, 2012 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #857882
Logician: If he gives it to you he is saying that it is Kosher by your standards. Unless you really wan’t to call everyone who doesn’t keep every Kashrush Chumrah that you do “Chashud Al Hadavar” then it should be fine Halachically to eat. If you know that their standards are different and that they would give you something that you wouldn’t eat, then they’re either terrible friends or probably shouldn’t be giving you Shaloch Manos in the first place. But the Halachah says that as long as they are Torah-observant Jews you can trust them.February 29, 2012 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #857883ToiParticipant
idk, but my mother takes care when baking part of S”M to write the hechsher and yoshon.March 1, 2012 2:00 am at 2:00 am #857884
sam2 – sorry, I just don’t think that’s true. I don’t know what my friends do or don’t eat.
Of course they’re believed that they’re not trying to give me something I wouldn’t eat – they simply don’t know.
I don’t think there is “kosher by your standards”. There are so many individual questions, as well as differences of opinion (or rumour!) about different hechsheirim, that I just don’t think his giving it to you tells you anything about whether you would want to eat it.March 1, 2012 6:05 am at 6:05 am #857885
Logician: Ah, there’s the important part. You said “what you want to eat”. The Halachah says Eid Echad Ne’eman. The food is Muttar. Whether you want to eat it or not is entirely up to you.March 1, 2012 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #857886
You want to eat a certain standard. Eid Echad says your friend is not trying to mess you up. Practically speaking, you may not be able to assume he is giving you what you usually eat. What is not clear about that ?
Lets spell out the scenario. I don’t eat hechsher x. Whether its reliable or not is irrelevant – my kashrus practice is to avoid it. Others do use it, no problem, there are differences of opinion about its reliability, kulos, or whatever. Do I know where my friend falls on this particular issue ? Very likely not, there are many hechsheirim and many halachic kulos/chumros, I don’t have extensive knowledge of my friend’s decisions in these many area’s. Therefore, I don’t know if I should eat his food.
You may be thinking that it will usually boil down to chumros, not real concerns.
1)There are many questions in halachah where despite there existing a lenient opinion, one who is strict may do so with the attitude that it is assur. It’s not a chumrah – it’s a dispute, and so the way I see it, it’s assur, and therefore I MAY NOT eat it.
2)Why should I unnecessarily give up my chumrah just to eat my friend’s cake ? (Obviously if there’s bein adam l’chaveiro involved that would make a difference.)March 4, 2012 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #857887
Sam2 ?March 6, 2012 6:12 am at 6:12 am #857888
Logician: Sorry it took so long to get back to this. I never saw your post. But I think what I said before still stands. Unless you want to call him Chashud Al Hadavar, you can assume that the food he gives you is completely Kosher, which should mean to your standards.March 6, 2012 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #857889
You stand by yours, but you won’t respond to my points ?March 6, 2012 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #857890
I think that everything that I said answers all of your points.March 6, 2012 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #857891
Ittisa and I had a real fight over this one. We came up with a modest solution.
Rabbonim who we give do not get anything homebaked.
Anyone else who gets must be someone who would be willing to eat in our home. If not, they don’t get any Mishloach Manos. That way, we don’t worry that they aren’t enjoying Ittisa’s (and a Mashehu of my (I did shlep the flour)) hard work. 🙂March 6, 2012 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #857892
I agree with Logician. Just because it is Kosher, doesn’t mean someone else will eat it.March 6, 2012 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #857893LBKParticipant
There are not only issues related to kashrus associated with baked goods. Most people will not take “challah” from the dough from baked goods, because cakes, cookies etc. don’t usually have enough flour to require challah be taken. However, if you are baking a lot for purim, and storing cakes in the freezer or even in a cabinet, the cakes combine (“tziruf sal”)for the amount that triggers a requirement to take challah. Even something thats made with a batter, and not a dough can be combined after baking to trigger a requirement to take challah, if stored in one place after baking.March 6, 2012 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #857894
On the other hand, LBK, if you’re baking for the purpose of distributing it in small amounts you may not have to take challah.
This raises another point.
SAM2 – you listening ?
Eid echod works based on the assumption that the other is aware of the issues, and is believed that they dealt with them properly. You are sadly out of touch with reality if you think that most Jew today (worker, learner, man or women) is sufficiently knowledgeable in Halachah.March 7, 2012 12:36 am at 12:36 am #857895
Logician: I am not yet Ga’avadik enough to think that I know and/or follow Halachah better than any other Torah-observant Jew.March 7, 2012 1:11 am at 1:11 am #857896
Don’t be a Ba’al Ga’avah, but don’t be a fool either. On this forum, you seem to be (at least) reasonably well versed in basic concepts in Halachah. Are you so blind as to not be aware of the myriads of frum Jews who don’t know ‘nuthin in Halachah ?
As a totally side point, you either have more knowledge or you don’t – recognizing that would have nothing to do with ga’avah. Anivus isn’t blindness.March 7, 2012 3:32 am at 3:32 am #857897
Logician: Yes, I’ve seen the Maharsha on Sotah 49b (I think). Knowing what I know doesn’t mean that I have to assume that everyone (or anyone) knows less.March 7, 2012 4:23 am at 4:23 am #857898
You don’t have to assume anything. Reality is that sadly, a large number of frum Jews are very igorant of halacha. That’s all.March 7, 2012 4:36 am at 4:36 am #857899
GAW – I don’t know if you’re being serious, but I like your solution. This is who I am, take it or leave it. I don’t cook special for you. So if you wouldn’t eat it, I don’t give you at all.March 7, 2012 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #857900
GAW – I don’t know if you’re being serious, but I like your solution.
Thanks. I am serious.
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