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Rav Schorr also wrote a note stating that bochurim who have cell phones that have the text messaging feature should not come to his bais medrash to learn.” Although I understand that this is a daas torah, I find it hard to believe that other rabbanim agree. Although its true that texting is a terrible source of bitul torah I dont think putting a texter in cheirem is the solution.
What do you think?
Who are we to question HaRav Avraham Schorr??
How is this cherem? Any institution or place of learning is free to set criteria for entrance. Agreement with a policy is irrelevant, and all are free to refuse and find another beis medrash. Where would the poster have gotten the notion that a criterion for entrance is…cherem?
I think Rav Schorr could determine any policy he wants to for his beis medrash/shul. If you dont agree with him or like his policies, go daven/learn elsewhere.there are many other places to daven/learn in Flatbush.
come on guys all of u dont u see the danger of bachurim with cellphones let alone texting? how can u even question r’ shorr?
He Isn’t Banning texting just eradicating its obsessive nature,
lack of respect for one surroundings,from penetrating his beis medrash.
One cannot ban something that in itself isn’t wrong.
Like wearing a bathingsuit is fine, but not in beis medrash.
If I could I’d ban anyone from entering a shul with a cellphone
unless it was off, set to silent or vibrate!
Texting is bad, I agree. So is the internet. You are all on it. This shows that there is a good side to things. By banning them, you make the child desire it more and seek it in their own ways (at a friends house, purchasing one on their own ect). But, by teaching your children how to use it safely and appropriately, you instill a measure of self-control, personal responsibility and maturity so they can make these decisions on their own. Teach them, so that the first time they encounter it when you arent there, they are not immediately drawn to it, unsure of what to do. Model appropriate behaviors, instruct them in reasoning, logic, resposibility and maturity. Otherwise, what will happen when you arent there to tell them about the next technological invention???
In Israel these rules are standard for yeshivas.
Rav Schorr is right but to radical.
frum 1- Rav Shorr didn’t ban text messaging, as stated in the post heading. And he’s not putting anyone in Cheirim. He just asked that they shouldn’t learn in his B”M. That’s his right as the Rav.
We actually have no idea what he said. All we have is a quote of what an unknown person on an unknown website summarized his position to be, in their interpretation of part of his statement, in no context. Any comment on this non-knowledge is fruitless and dangerous and will lead to nothing but spreading misinformation.
This thread should be closed and deleted, (possibly reopened if and when we can get an actual reproduction of the note that was written, and as close to possible of an exact quote of what was said and the circumstances, to whom his remarks were addressed, what incidents prompted the remarks and further relevant contextual facts. Even then it is probably unwise to have a discussion of it here, but at least it would be somewhat of an Emesdik approach.)
Joseph – There are many, many rabbonim who would argue on this.
feivel – Good point, but that doesn’t take away from the actual issue.
bein_hasdorim & havesomeseichel – Couldn’t agree more. Texting in a Bais Medrash is an incredible lack of kavod Bais Medrash and should be banned. However, banning texting altogether is a) not necessary (texting is not inherently any more evil then voice-only) and b) impossible. If a teenager wants to be able to text, they can buy their own phone any day. Better to allow moderate, monitored texting.
Jothar – This isn’t Israel, and what works in Israel will not necessarily work here. Sheltering is the accepted method of chinuch in Israel, but in America thats just not possible.
Whatever the words of the Rav are irrelevant in the fact that texting is good or not good, we dont need to know what he really said or didnt said what we need to know is:
Do we want our bachurim to have access to anybody through texting? Should we encourage people idle time instead of learning? What is a person going to gain from texting?
We have to think very hard and seriously . Is it good or no good.?
mw13 – Notice I didn’t say how can a Rov disagree with HaRav Schorr Shlita. I asked how can we do so. There is a difference, as you surely understand.
So basically what they’re saying is that if you have a cell phone that texts don’t bother to come and learn…. So what should they do?
What’s the term that they use? Oh yeah! off the derech, hmmmmm….
MyBat. Did Rav Schorr say dont learn? You can go next door to Ohr Yitzchak and learn in their Beis Medrash. You can walk a few blocks to Chaim Berlin, the Laewood Minyan, Landaus and dozens of other Battei Medrash in the area. Off the derech? More like off the wall.
Rav Schorr is right on the mark here. Texting is so rampant that studies have shown that the average teenager doesn’t spend more than a very short period of time without interruptions from texting. These interruptions ruin the concentration necessary for proper learning. You’re in yeshiva to learn? Put your learning head on and avoid anything else. You don’t like it? Find a yeshiva where every two minutes your phone buzzes.
If Rav Schorr would have a policy that said “you can only daven in my beis medrash if you wear a hat and jacket” (he doesn’t) would anyone make ridiculuos statements about putting people in cherem or not davening at all? Every Rav can make takanos for their Bais Medrash, dont like it, go elsewhere.
frum – Is your shita Daas Torah too? If not, why the commentary?
Well I know many people who work,they go learn every single day gemarah for more than 2 hours. So all of them have cell phones with texting and most have blackberries . Just a question, better not go to learn? They need it to work?
I honestly do not understand the problem here. B”H we are privileged to live in a time and place where we have a plethora of choices for Batei Medrash. One can choose the Bet Medrash to fit one’s hashkafa and level of learning. Of course, the major influence on a Yeshiva’s hashkafa is the Rosh Yeshiva. If you don’t agree with the hashkafa of a particular Rosh Yeshiva, why would you want to attend that yeshiva? For the name alone? That is no reason to choose a Yeshiva.
mybat if a person has a blackberry for work and then learns half a day. If that person is seriously in learning would not be text messaging during his learning time and would put it away and not use it during that time.
i heard him scream about texting. told parent they would burn for giving phones to the parent in his words: “then you come crying to me, my son’s off the derech.its your fault!” he toldsomeone i know that the problem is the pix messages
joseph – You’re missing my point. Those of us who disagree with Rav Shcorr are not arguing against daas torh – we simply have different rabbonim
MW13.
Its really a game of semantics and how one decides to interpret your comment.
When you write “those of us who disagree with rav schorr” it implies that YOU disagree with him. You then write it is because of your Rav.
In short, YOU are not disagreeing with him. Your RAV does.
Hopefully that will make Joseph happy. Unless he starts playing the “this Rav is bigger than that Rav” game.
jphone makes the point well.
jphone – Not sure what you mean.
R’ Schorr can restrict access to his own yeshiva/shul in whatever way he wants, as long as it’s somewhat reasonable and within halachic bounds. While I really don’t think I would react as drastically to texting, he does have that right.
me as a tutor when I was teaching a young bachur english private classes, he was sixteen years old, one time I came into the class and I saw he was text messaging with a girl, he made me promise not to tell his mother, so Inever told his family, but it was with a regular phone not a blackberry in his house.?
personaly, i think banning texting only delays a potential problem, rather than educate teens/kids in the proper usage of anything (why is it any different than internet … if anything, internet is worse)
however, the dangers of texting are real, and any smart parent will know what their kids are up to (if you have good communication with your kids this should not be an issue … if you don’t, work on it)
be that as it may, mazca, what are you thinking … i am not opposed to boys getting involved with girls as a general rule (there are halachic issues, and they must be avoided/taken care of), but if parents don’t know, that is a dangerous thing … i would even go as far as to say that you have a chiyuv to tell the parents, or someone in a state of authority who would know how to deal with it properly
fair point … my apologies
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