April 29, 2012 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #603163
How much does a Bar Ilan CD? Are there multiple versions? How often is it updated? Is it available for use anywhere without purchasing it? Can it (technically) be copied for private use?
What does the CD have on it?
Who are the general clients of this product? Academic types or the Yeshivish/Beis Medrash guys?April 29, 2012 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #871333
It costs a pretty penny.April 29, 2012 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #871334RABBAIMParticipant
The older version is 380- the newer one is about 780- see it online. google bar ilan ver 19. Mosnsey frum software co has the older for cheap. No need to copy. is is assur anyway. Install on your computer and use it!April 29, 2012 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #871335
Torah cannot be copyrighted or protected from copying, according to many shittos.April 29, 2012 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #871336OneOfManyParticipant
Sheichus copyrighting?April 29, 2012 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #871337lesschumrasParticipant
The Torah can’t be copyrighted but a peirush certainly can be. It’s not published for free and the author deserves to be compensatedApril 30, 2012 12:08 am at 12:08 am #871338
According to these shittos, no Torah or pirush can be stopped from being freely dissemenated. (Btw, the CD producer freely copied all those pirushem of others.)April 30, 2012 12:18 am at 12:18 am #871339RSRHMember
I have seen teshuvos that interpret tis view to mean that no one can have ownership over the ideas themselves; i.e., no one has an ownership interest in the intellectual product of Torah learning. But, if someone invests money to typeset, footnote, edit, and print a sefer, one may not simply photo copy the whole sefer (as apposed to a page or to) in order to avoid buying it.
In other words, Rabbi X has no halachic ta’anah on someone who uses his Torah ideas (unlike in secular law, where people “own” their intellectual work product). But Oz V’hadar, for example, can bring a din Torah against someone that makes photo copies of their edition of the gemarah in order to avoid buying a cop from the publisher. In that case, it’s not the Torah that is owned; its the work that went into the typesetting, editing, and researching, and printing that particular edition.April 30, 2012 12:35 am at 12:35 am #871340
RSRH: How then does Bar Ilan copy whole Seforim unto its CD?April 30, 2012 1:21 am at 1:21 am #871341RSRHMember
Derszoger: You’lle notice that Bar Ilan doesn’t use pdf copies of the pages of printed editions of the seforim, they merely reenter the text of the sefer into the program; its essentially the equivalent of you sitting down and typing the entire Igros Moshe into MS Word to have your own copy of the sefer. Bar Ilan is using the though-product, the Torah itself. They aren’t reproducing the efforts of publishers who invest money and time into producing the sefer.
Better question is how does Otzar HaChochma do it; they use pdf copies of the actual pages of the seforim, and unlike Hebrewbooks, they make money off the effort. Could be they only use seforim whose copyrights have expired, and for others they pay the publisher for use. But I don’t know.April 30, 2012 4:54 am at 4:54 am #871342RABBAIMParticipant
While the chochmas HaTorah may be public, the CD with all its search, copy, features is not Torah itself.
Second, if it is bought with conditions attached we MUST adhere to those conditions.. it is like a tnai in the sale.April 30, 2012 5:22 am at 5:22 am #871343
Its not like a tnai. Because if it were, then if the tnai were broken, the recourse would be to reverse the sale. And of course the seller wont do that.April 30, 2012 5:33 am at 5:33 am #871344holy brotherParticipant
buy it in israel its cheaperApril 30, 2012 8:53 am at 8:53 am #871345g73Member
For anyone who is interested YU alumni are entitled to use both Bar Ilan Online Responsa and Otzar HaHochma Online for free. The alumni association has a license that allows free access (and a number of other databse tools as well).April 30, 2012 10:57 am at 10:57 am #871346
What are the similarities and differences between Bar Ilan, Otzar HaChochma and HebrewBooks?April 30, 2012 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #871347lesschumrasParticipant
I find it amusing how people have no problem searching for heterim and kulos to justify stealing intellectual property
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