February 2, 2012 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #601881
I know this is popa’s field of questions but I was at a minyan today where the father said “baruch shepatrani m’onesh shelazeh” and I was wondering why do we give a bracha to hashem for taking us out of a situation that he put us into (I guess the same thing applies to birchas hagomel)February 2, 2012 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #848928Sam2Participant
We never should say Baruch Shepatrani (Vehamaivin Yavin).February 2, 2012 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #848929popa_bar_abbaParticipant
What, no story about flying 3 headed minyan that is half conservative and half egalitarian, with a mohel on camelback?February 2, 2012 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #848930soliekMember
a katan, as far as i know, has no yetzer tov. the function of yetzer tov and that responsibility falls on his parents, and they are therefore responsible for his action. when a kid turns 13, becoming a gadol, he receives an internal yetzer tov and is therefore responsible for his own actions. so i suppose it could be cause for both celebration and relief…that a mans son is now a proper person AND that he no longer has to burn for his son’s misdeeds 😀
dont ask me where i got all this from…i have no idea.February 2, 2012 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #848931yungerman1Participant
Pet Peeve Alert: The word is sheptarani, not shepatrani. Shvu under the Pey, Kumetz under the Tes, not vice versa.February 2, 2012 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #848932kingdavidParticipant
The reason is because a father is responsible for the sins of his child until the child reaches the age of thirteen, as he should have taught him to refrain from sin. From the age of thirteen he is less responsible. Although, the Chofetz Chaim makes a point of mentioning the dictum of Chazal that one who does not rebuke an older child is considered responsible for his sins, and one who does not rebuke members of a community will be held responsible for their sins as well. Obviously a Halachic authority should be consulted how this should be done.February 2, 2012 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #848933
Sorry no pets allowed in the crFebruary 2, 2012 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #848934
everyone else (except popa that is),
Hashem is the one that made you mechuyev in your kids action so why do we say that he exempted us, its like telling the cop that put you in jail “thanks for freeing me” after he takes you outFebruary 2, 2012 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #848935Shticky GuyParticipant
kingdavid hi and welcome. I dont remember speaking with you before. Very interesting. Do you know why according to the levush is it the father making that brocha when it would seem more appropriate for the son to be making it if it is him not being punished any more for his father’s aveiros?
yungerman1 the word isnt sheptarani either. Its she-pi-torani (sheva na, not sheva nach).February 2, 2012 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #848936midwesternerParticipant
You are thanking Hashem that he gave you a job with a 13 year limit, and you successfully completed the responsibility.February 2, 2012 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #848937
Wouldn’t it be better with no responsibility at all, why am I happy that I’m forced to have a job?February 3, 2012 2:57 am at 2:57 am #848938February 3, 2012 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #848939yungerman1Participant
Shticky Guy- True true, but those who pronounce it shepatrani are probaly not familiar with shva na and shva nach.February 3, 2012 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #848940
Whose comment specifically,
Actually I’m very familliar with itFebruary 4, 2012 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #848941Shticky GuyParticipant
Yunger true true!
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