Bdikas Chometz: Hid 10 pieces of bread but found 11

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  • #1705192

    If you find 11 pieces, do you assume that the 11th piece is from last year’s bedikas chometz and therefore chmometz she’ovar olav ha’pessach – so you can’t eat it?

    Pretty sure last year you found all 10 pieces, but a bit of uncertainty (was distracted and in a rush)?

    I don’t want to stam burn the extra piece (ba’al tashchis) when I can eat it and do a biyur chometz that way too, but if it is a year old, it’s kind of gross to eat anyway (ba’al tshaktzu), besides being chometz she’ovar olav ha’pessach, but maybe it is fresher and still geshmak…

    What to do with the 11th piece of chometz???

    #1705455

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    If you find 11 pieces, do you assume that the 11th piece is from last year’s bedikas chometz and therefore chmometz she’ovar olav ha’pessach – so you can’t eat it?

    Were you planning on eating year old bread?

    The Wolf

    #1705471

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    You were mevatel what you did not find, so you can eat it provided it is edible.

    #1705508

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Straight out of Kunda (Longest Pesach)

    .. And I put down nine and found ten…

    .. And I KA”Y DO have teeth. How can I eat the Matzah? (CRUNCH!! OUCH!!)

    #1705502

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Am I understanding the question that you have already performed the bedikas chametz?

    #1705620

    lacisrmma – you have already performed the bedikas chametz?

    Yes! Just in case we decide to leave before pessach to enjoy the seder in some exotic place like the Congo, Vietnam or Iceland.

    It’s always good to be ready in advance!

    Imagine if moshiach comes today and wants us to get on the clouds to leave NOW to Eretz Yisroel – I will be able to hop on the cloud and leave because I did bdikas chometz, but you will need to wait till tomorrow after you do bedika!!!

    You would miss the boat…cloud.

    #1705624

    SamSaposhnik
    Participant

    See Psochim 10a at the bottom (and Tosfos there).

    #1705743

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    I am concluding you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

    #1705753

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    If u found 11, consider it a yom tov bonus.
    Not every is lucky to get a bonus for yomtov

    #1705902

    lacisrmma – if Moshiach comes today, will YOU be able to leave to Eretz Yisroel TODAY? No – you won’t be able to go! You will need to wait till tomorrow, so you can do bedikas chometz at night, before leaving.

    I, on the other hand, am ready to leave on the next cloud (ananei shmaya) because I already did bedikas chometz.

    So you will be late for the “picnic” and no “sandwiches” will be left for you.

    If you are a ma’amin bemuna shleima, you would dop bedikas chometz early and be ready for Moshiach.

    #1705928

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I guess the משנה which says אור לארבעה עשר, and that applies in חוץ לארץ, didn’t believe באמונה שלמה.

    You probably think your trolling is funny, but you should know that your stream of distortions of halacha come across as mocking halacha. You should stop.

    #1705971

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Rebbitzen, the halacha SA O”CH 436 is that if you want to leave early less than 30 days before and you figure you will return before Pesach, you don’t have to wait but be bodek the night before you leave.. If you don’t want to return, you don’t have a responsibility to be bodek. Others say that if he wants to return for Peasach but not before , then he always has to be bodek before he leaves.

    #1705973

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Reb. If Moshiach comes today I can definitely be ready to go with him. I would not be mechuyav to wait until the night of the 14th. BTW, have you made arrangements to purchase your sheep….if you haven’t that might also might show you are not a ma’amin bemuna shleima. (T)

    #1706004

    lacis, ” I would not be mechuyav to wait until the night of the 14th.”, true, but you would need to wait till nightfall, (because bedika needs to be at night), which means you can’t leave with Moshiach today, and need to wait for tomorrow. I, on the other hand, am ready to go.

    #1706019

    laskern- “if you want to leave early less than 30 days before and you figure you will return before Pesach, you don’t have to wait but be bodek the night before you leave.. If you don’t want to return, you don’t have a responsibility to be bodek. ”

    That is not perfectly accurate!

    As a public service, I will cite the correct halacha on this.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46447&st=&pgnum=148&hilite=

    If one leaves his house and intends to return after pessach (FN 2 Shulchan Aruch HaRav adds that the same applies if he NEVER will return to this house)…if he leaves within 30 days of pessach (after purim) he is required to do bdikas chometz AT NIGHT without a brocha…

    For those living in goy owned apts/houses:
    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46447&st=&pgnum=156&hilite=

    A Jew that lived in a goys house and moves out to live elsewhere, even within 30 days of pessach, he does not need to do bdika…ss. 2 this ONLY applies if the goy will enter the home before pessach, but if he won’t enter, the Jew is REQUIRED to do bdika and dispose of all chometz (but there are some that are meikil even if goy won’t enter before pessach and do not require bedika).

    #1706108

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    No, you are leaving before night, so you have no chiyuv of bedikah since you won’t return for Pesach you won’t have to be bodek.

    #1706141

    laskern, if you require further clarification on the correct halacha (rochel, bitcha, haktana),

    you wrote “If you don’t want to return, you don’t have a responsibility to be bodek.” that is incorrect!

    If one leaves his house anytime after purim, even if he will never return (and for sure if he will return after pessach), he is required to make bedikas chometz.

    The links and translations were provided.

    when you followed up with a comment: “No, you are leaving before night, so you have no chiyuv of bedikah since you won’t return for Pesach you won’t have to be bodek.”

    That too is incorrect (I don’t mean to farshem you, but others might think that what you said is correct – it isn’t). Better stick to bashing other yidden’s lack of frumkeit and halacha practices than making halacha comments..

    Is this disgusting comment also part of your love your neighbor campaign? Get off the high horse.

    #1706291

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    having been on the receiving end of one of your sharp retorts I dont think for one second that you really mean what you wrote in the parentheses. i think that is 100% your intention.

    #1706357

    Doreish HaEmes
    Participant

    Rebbitzen Bitcha,
    It is disgusting how you twist everything and make a mockery of halacha and hashkafa.
    But either way be careful because when moshiach comes and you’re the only one sitting on your cloud (cuz everyone else is be busy doing bedika) we will all see who you are!!

    #1706382

    Doreish HamEisim, in case you are unaware (as it sounds from your comment), you should know that a person is LCHATCHILAH allowed to make bdikas chometz any night BEFORE אור לארבעה עשר (this is contrary to what “someone” (not a Das Rabim) implied incorrectly by pointing out that the Mishna states it “must” be done אור לארבעה עשר – which is wrong )..

    Source:
    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46447&st=&pgnum=72&hilite=

    Netei Gavriel, Hil Pessach Vol 1, Ch 7, hal. 4 with sources in foot note.

    One may wonder, WHYwould I want to do bedika before אור לארבעה עשר? What benefit is there in doing so?

    To this I say, if Moshiach comes today, I am ready to go on Ananei Shmaya to Eretz Yisroel, while those that still require to do bedikas chometz must wait till night to do bedika before they can leave.

    What is so complicated with that?! Is that twisting or mocking halacha?! Explain!

    #1706388

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yes, it’s twisting, perhaps mocking halacha, because the source you bring says you should do the bedikah on the 14th.

    #1706392

    Since it is necessary, I will translate halacha 4 (link above in earlier post):

    “4. If someone wants to do bedika on the eve of 13 or any other night of year using a candle – he may do so, provided he is careful not to bring again chometz into that place, but should do the bedika without a bracha, and ONE CAN DO SO LCHATCHILA [emphais added by me] to do a bedika in all his rooms and leave over one room for bedika on eve of 14.

    Summary: LCHATCHILA one can do bedikas chometz on ANY night BEFORE אור לארבעה עשר without a brocha, provided that one room is left for bedika on the eve of 14 with a bracha.

    Foot Note 11 brings approx 9 sources for this.

    Twisting? Mocking? Because this does not conform with your mind set of what the halacha ought to be?!

    Do you have another translation? Mabe a revision?

    #1706395

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Rebetzin

    When משיח comes win’t פסח be בטל and have new ימים טובים?

    Just asking

    #1706644

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Rebbitzen, you are so sure about yourself, i am not. Over here he will never return, so he gives up ownership of his house and has no responsibility towards it. This is similar to moving thirty days before Pesach where I think he will not have to be bodek the old place at most he can be mevatel. The SA is talking in a case where he will return sometime.

    #1706646

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    coffee addict, It only happens after Techiyas Hamesim.

    #1706732

    Doreish HaEmes
    Participant

    Wow rebbitzen you just flip flopped. First you say, you can l’chatchilah perform bedikah b4 the 14th now you clarify its lechatchilah only if you leave over 1 room for the 14th. So just to make clear for everyone, bedikah is lechatchilah supposed to be done on the 14th (that’s where the ikur takanah was mesukan). Sometimes it may b’dieved (because no berocha can be recited) be done before the 14th (i.e. person won’t be present on 14th), but is supposed to be performed on the last night you are home because Unless you vacate the premises and no one is allowed in, you will need to perform bedikah again on 14th. So in essence your original post is factually incorrect, you can’t have your cake and eat it to, you can’t do a bedikah lechatchilah and then be ready to leave your house at a moments notice. You would lechatchilah need to leave over 1 room for the 14th to make a berocha on. So you would need to wait with the rest of us to get on the ‘bus’.
    Besides for the fact that you would not need to do bedika anyway on a house that you are relinquishing ownership. It’s clear from gemorah in pesochim regarding maskir and socher that only in that case where the maskir retains (part/ikur) ownership of the property he may need to do bedikah. It’s clear that a sale or even just being mafkir a property (where no bailus remains) would absolve his chiyuv. Additionally the MB states clearly when you leave a rental property (b4 14th, owned by a goy) the only time you need to do bedikah b4 you leave is if you dont have another place to be mekayeim the mitzvah of bedikah later.

    #1706730

    Doreish HaEmes
    Participant

    Rebbitzen, Allow me to clarify, what I meant by twisting halacha is, we have a mesorah on halacha, which shitos we follow and how we are mekayim specific mitzvos. So when you come in with new ideas and pull tidbits of information from multiple sources and come up with a innovative way to do a mitzvah, that’s what I call twisting. More so is your tone, haughtily putting people down and making a mockery of chazal and halacha.

    #1706695

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Many hold if he sells his house to a non-jew before Pesach, he is not responsible to do bedikah.

    #1706767

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    ” More so is your tone, haughtily putting people down and making a mockery of chazal and halacha.”
    oh, have no fear! It’s all part of his love your neighbor campaign. Both mocking chazal and halacha, as well as everyone’s screen names. Just more ways to put people down for the sake of the greater good.

    #1706793

    laskern, “Over here he will never return, so he gives up ownership of his house and has no responsibility towards it. This is similar to moving thirty days before Pesach where I think he will not have to be bodek the old place at most he can be mevatel. The SA is talking in a case where he will return sometime.”

    Sorry, but that is incorrect.
    please re-read the halacha:
    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46447&st=&pgnum=148&hilite=

    If one leaves his house and intends to return after pessach (FN 2 Shulchan Aruch HaRav adds that THE SAME APPLIES IF HE NEVER (EVER – N E V E R) WILL RETURN TO THIS HOUSE)…if he leaves within 30 days of pessach (after purim) he is required to do bdikas chometz AT NIGHT without a brocha…

    #1707730

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Who will take over when you leave since all the Jews are leaving? For whom are you bodek? Aren’t you moving to EY where you will also be bodek?

    #1709789

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Summary: LCHATCHILA one can do bedikas chometz on ANY night BEFORE אור לארבעה עשר without a brocha, provided that one room is left for bedika on the eve of 14 with a bracha.

    The chiyuv to leave a room for bedikas chometz makes your entire point about being ready to leave before anyone else moot.

    Leaving out a detail which changes the entire halacha is indeed distorting halacha.

    #1709894

    laskern – “For whom are you bodek? Aren’t you moving to EY where you will also be bodek?”

    Read over the halacha, link above. You will see CLEARLY that even if you NEVER (ever) return, you MUST do bdika. It does NOT help if you only make a bdika at your new location.

    This is the halacha – read the CAPS:

    If one leaves his house and intends to return after pessach (FN 2 Shulchan Aruch HaRav adds that THE SAME APPLIES IF HE NEVER (EVER – N E V E R) WILL RETURN TO THIS HOUSE)…if he leaves within 30 days of pessach (after purim) he is required to do bdikas chometz AT NIGHT without a brocha…

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