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As a divorced woman with kids, I find mostly an oblivious attitude from my neighbors and Even people I see when I get a chance to go to Shull. I’m stumped by the seeming callousness and lack of invitations from people I know to be Chessed doers in other areas. Folks next time you say good Shabbos to your divorced neighbor how about extending yourself a little more and doing the right thing, either invite them in, say a kind word, ask if they need help with chores such as snow shoveling in the winter, taking their boys to Shul… The Ribono Shel Olam will be proud.
Thank you for your post!
You are right, most people don’t know what it’s like to be in that situation and don’t undestand everything.
I wish you much success in all your endeavors.
I really appreciate how much you care that your sons go to shul. Maybe there is someone in the synagogue that you trust who can sit in shul next to the boys and explain to them the tfila, and later also teach them how to lay tfillin, ect.
Much Blessings
I’m not disagreeing with you, just want to point something out for the sake of being dan lkaf zchus.
Many people are afraid to reach out to people in need (be it divorcee or any other need lo alainu) because although their assistance can be a great help, if done slightly wrong they’ll do more damage than good. Helping others requires tact. Recipients are usually very sensitive and can be easily hurt.
Did you ever try to help an older person with their packages, only to be shouted at, “im not THAT old!”? People have pride and dont like to feel helpless, offering help to the wrong person can be very offensive.
OYOYOY made a good point, though I would not let that stop me from trying to be of help. HOWEVER, there is a phenomenon that some women feel threatened by the presence of a divorcee in their homes. There unfortunately IS some valid reason for that, because there is a certain type of divorcee who lets her dependence on the helpful male neighbor become something else. Sometimes lines are crossed, not even necessarily aveiros chas v’sholom, but just neediness that becomes inappropriate.
I am not accusing any divorcee of seeking to cause sholom bayis problems for others, but it sometimes does happen even innocently, and it makes some wives wary. That said, I have friends who are divorced, and we have maintained spearate relationships with both ex-husband and wife.
You just have to know where to draw the line, while at the same time being reasonably supportive. Yomim tovim can be especially hard, if the children are with the non-custodial parent.
Just use seichel, and offer that help or invitation, but as an adjunct, not as a substitute.
please be kind to divorcees, even if they don’t have children. And please don’t judge or ask for details when you hear of a divorce. You never know AND IT IS KNOWN OF YOUR BUSINESS.
People think it’s contagious.
I don’t think the outside chance of receiving a negative response is a legitimate excuse to not offer an invitation.
it isn’t the negative response people care about as much as what the negative response means–they were offended.
Again let me reiterate, what i’m trying to do is help you look at these people in a positive light. I understand that you really do believe people are good and are just venting but it sounds hateful and i dont like when someone starts hating on my people.
Yes, you are right, people are oblivious. So maybe you can ask for what you need instead of hoping someone will read your mind? (And by the way, this advice is not limited to divorcees.)
Be kind to everyone.
Asking is embarrassing. Accepting is not.
Since no one wants to make an offer only to be rejected, why don’t you let them know that an offer might readily be accepted? When shmoozing with someone you’re friendly with, why don’t you say “I’m having such a hectic week, I didn’t get a chance to arrange my Shabbos meals yet” or something like that. Like that they don’t randomly stick in an invitation in middle of nowhere and feel silly if it’s rejected. Like ChanieE said, you can’t expect people to read your mind.
I guess it’s personal and different people react differently, but to me, being treated like a nebach or treating someone else like a nebach is worse than asking for help.
Divorced people need much more support than almonos and almans-they’re looked down on after suffering thru horrific marriages-they usually make a keren for families that lose their shop spouses-and wedding funds-many divorced people don’t get the support they’re supposed to get
Why would a divorcee need help paying for a child’s wedding anymore than a married couple? Whether a chossen/kallah’s parents are married or divorced, in either case there are B”H still two parents to make the wedding.
About taking the boys to shul, cannot the child’s divorced father do that?
Some divorcees are offended when offered help.
Lior – many divorcees have exes who refuse to pay towards their own children’s weddings. Don’t think that does not happen all too often. Sometimes the burden of cost is falling solely on the one parent (usually, but not always, the mom). When you see a father refuse to chip in for his own children’s simchas, tuition, orthodonture, etc. his laissez-faire attitude may even be one of the reasons that the marriage initially failed. No one but the two people involved really knows the truth.
As to divorcees being offended at being invited or asked if they need help – SERIOUSLY??????????????? There is pride, and there is foolish pride. But if someone says no to an invitation, then try again at another time. And keep trying.
My next door neighbor was widowed recently, lo aleinu, and I invited her to join us for Shabbos meals. She has been going to her son, and said thank you, but she is usually going to be by them. My response? “Enjoy your aineklach whenever you want to be away by them, but I am giving you an open invitation to simply show up at my door Friday night and Shabbos lunch, as often as you like. You don’t need any formal invitation from me anymore. You are always welcome by my Shabbos and yom tov table, just make sure I’m home. And I mean it!” She really appreciated that.
Don’t stop inviting someone just because they said no (unless you are uncomfortable with them, for some reason). Sometimes they need to see you really mean it. It is not being a nebach, it is called v’ahavta l’rayacha kamocha.
@Gamanit,
I couldn’t disagree more with your suggestions. The divorcee is going through a hard enough time with the stigma of divorce, people taking sides without knowing the truth about who did what to who, and asking for invitations is very uncomfortable for many people. I believe the onus should be on the inviters. Look around you next time in your neighborhood for who might need a meal and some company. Don’t wait for people to ask you to invite them,most times it will not happen unless you’re very close to them which is a whole different issue.
Seriously? You’re saying people have to assume you want to eat by them? Do people in your community typically invite married couples for regular shabbos meals? If so, you can expect invitations. If it’s not the norm, why should people think to single you out for being divorced? Most divorcees say that they just want to be treated like everyone else.
oomis, when a father refuses to pay for his child’s wedding it is wrong. But it must also be noted that unfortunate situation usually is a result of when a mother actively worked to disenfranchise the children from their father.
So you are judging us saying we are making generalizations when you are making one yourself, justifying it by your own status.
I don’t do surveys, nor do I make generalizations. I said some, not all. Do you know all divorcees on the planet? I happen not to know you, but I do know other people who are not you and therefore think differently, though their situations may be similar.
True, i don’t know divorcees. I guess you do and i’ll follow your advice. If youre wrong, me making a fool of them is on your shoulders.
oomis, when a father refuses to pay for his child’s wedding it is wrong. But it must also be noted that unfortunate situation usually is a result of when a mother actively worked to disenfranchise the children from their father. “
That may very well be so and any woman who knowingly distances the children from their (innocent of wrongdoing)father, in order to get back at him, is doing the wrong thing, unless he was violent and abusive to them or to her. However, it may also be so that the father has not been present in his kids’ lives by his own choice, due to mental illness, or because he has a new family with a second marriage. No one really knows the true story. I was only commenting on the fact that a divorced parent may have no additional resources to pay for a simcha.
Francorachel3- It’s hard to respond to you now without insulting you but I’ll try. Did you ever do anything to these people that they owe you a favor? Is it your “right” to have people invite you out for meals? Or, is it a nice thing for someone to do? I don’t think anyone has to do anything for you. Based on your attitude, I don’t know why people would want to either. It sounds like you wouldn’t really appreciate the meal, since that’s what they have to do anyhow right? From the divorcees I know, most would be none too thrilled being treated as anything less than a mature independent adult capable of leading her own shabbos meal.
And I don’t feel guilty about not extending invitations because it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to invite a person of the opposite gender.
I’m just curious Franco when you were married how many times did you invite a divorcee/single to your table?
Francorachel/ Thank you.
RebYidd – you’re right about you specifically inviting a woman to dine, but for people who have both husband AND wife at home, it is nice to include people who are alone, whoever they may be, male or female, with or without children. Only twice in 37 years have I not asked someone back for a second meal, and in both cases the guest acted inappropriately either in my home or elsewhere that I observed, and I therefore felt uncomfortable with hosting that person again. I am not saying we have to invite divorcees, widows and their male counterparts to EVERY meal, but it is thoughtful and sensitive to recognize that they are probably very lonely, and would like the companionship of others for a yom tov, if not Shabbos meal.
BTW, to all the divorced or widowed men and women – it would not hurt for YOU to invite other people in your same boat, or even the people who have hosted you, to come for a meal at your house sometime, or if money is tight, offer to do something nice for them, like babysit, or the like. (No, I am not suggesting the men should do this). When there is some measure of reciprocity, it could help alleviate the feeling that some people might have of being a “nebach” if they are contributing positively to the relationship.
Gamanit- do you believe there is no possible way to say you want to invite one without getting her insulted? Personally i think it should be done, just it’s a minefield.
I hint an opening for an invitation all the time. I say how much we love guests, and I ask what her plans are. If she doesn’t get such a broad hint, she’s obviously not looking for an invite.
Well, I’m not a divorcee, but I am single, and I live alone. I’m sure most people mean well when the invite me, but it always comes across as if they feel I am:
a) incapable of cooking,
b) too stupid to figure out how to say kiddush, or
c) all of the above.
I don’t like going out. People look at me as if I just came from another planet when I tell them I eat my meals at home. It’s especially difficult during Pesach.
On the other hand, one woman (I’m not sure if she’s a divorcee or a widow) found out I do my own seder. She said it never occurred to her to do her own. But she was so happy that I gave her the idea so that she could have HER seder in HER home.
Not everybody likes to be invited. If you want invitations, ask for them.
(bow and exit stage left)
Most people don’t ask for a meal. If you would like to have guests, ask them.
Asking is rare, but hinting or accepting hints is not.
haifagirl – would you agree that some people might find your desire to eat by yourself (even on Pesach) outside the mainstream population? Very few people consistently want to eat their meals alone. I assume you are a wonderful cook, and perhaps they are not, but what about companionship, someone to share a dvar Torah with on Shabbos? Why do you seem to feel that an invitation out means the person thinks you can’t cook for yourself or are too stupid to know how to say kiddush? That’s quite an assumption to be making about other people, wouldn’t you say?
I think most people want to be nice and kind, and we should not read into their motives too deeply. Sometimes we need to take things at face value. I am sure your company is enjoyable, meaning that you are a person who can enjoy being by yourself, but we all need others at various times, and Shabbos and yom tov seem to be the worst times to be alone. Just saying…
In any case, you cettainly have the right to live as you choose, but from someone who loves having company and BEING company, I admit that this is a first for me, reading your post.
Some ideas: invite a neighbor for coffee; if you have similarly aged kids, schedule a play date; invite some neighborhood women for a pirkei avos shiur and/or shalosh seudos; etc. Be proactive, not reactive!
I am in complete agreement with Oomis. Every word.
I think Goq’s comment answers all the different commenters here perfectly.
Be kind to everyone.
Be kind to your single neighbor, divorced or other, by extending an invitation.
Try to help all your neighbors in whatever way you can when you see a need arise.
Try to offer the help and invitation in a sincere, nonintrusive way.
Don’t be a yenta and ask too many questions.
Don’t make the other person feel like a nebach.
And to the people on the receiving end-
Don’t make assumptions about people offering help. In all likelihood, they’re extending a hand in friendship because they’d like to be your friend! Don’t decide that they’re pushy yentas who are treating you like a nebach.
Feel free to accept or decline the kind offer as you please. But don’t judge the one making the offer!
And to all of you, don’t decide that just because you like hot potato kugel, cold beer, having your seder with a lot of other people, or shoveling snow, that everyone else feels the same way.
There’s nothing abnormal about wanting to have a nice Shabbos seuda alone in your own home, and no reason to think that just because you like setting a dozen places at the table, there’s something wrong with eating alone.
Somewhere along the way we’ve become very judgmental of others and at the same time, quick to take offense at the way others approach us.
A little kindness, tolerance, open-mindedness and menchlichkeit, would go a long way towards solving a lot of our crises.
And the above can be extended (I’m sure Goq will approve) to everyone, divorcees and all our other neighbors too.
There’s nothing abnormal about wanting to have a nice Shabbos seuda alone in your own home, and no reason to think that just because you like setting a dozen places at the table, there’s something wrong with eating alone.”
FTR, Golfer, I would point out that I personally never said anyone was abnormal (not saying you said I did), just that wanting consistently to be by oneself even on Shabbos and yom tov (especially Pesach) is not a typical thing for most of us. People want to connect with others, and sharing a meal on Shabbos or yom tov is a fundamental common ground, even for a shy person. I think we all should be comfortable enough in our own skins to enjoy our own company, but Breishis teaches us that it is not good for man to be alone and I suspect that holds true for us ladies, too. At least, some of the time.
Golfer I always approve of your posts and this one especially!
would you agree that some people might find your desire to eat by yourself (even on Pesach) outside the mainstream population? Very few people consistently want to eat their meals alone.
There you go. You made the assumption that a lot of people make. I never said I wanted to be by myself. I said I wanted to be AT HOME! There is a difference. I would love nothing more than to have a dining room full of people. But in MY HOME, eating MY FOOD.
The problem is I don’t have a dining room, or even a dining table. I have a bed and a coffee table. That isn’t conducive to having guests. I hope that someday I will be financially able to have a larger apartment, and lots and lots of company.
For what it’s worth, when I was in a better financial situation, and did have a larger apartment, I did invite people. I was usually (but not always) turned down. Occasionally some other singles would come. Families never did.
In fact, one person even said, “Cooking for eight is a lot different than cooking for one.” Since he was an expert, I wish he could have taught me how to cook for one. I usually just gave my Shabbos leftovers (of which there were quite a bit) to some people who I knew would appreciate them.
haifagirl, so you concede that even when you had the financial resources you typically could not have guests. Now you don’t even have the room for it. And you state, like most people, you enjoy dining in the company of others. The combination of those two points should indicate you would be amenable to the idea of being invited out despite preferring eating at home – in the company of others.
The more fundamental point, though, is your objection to getting unsolicited invitations is unreasonable. How is the potential host to know in advance that you are from the minority that don’t even want an invitation?
How do you know it’s a minority that wants to be alone?
I’m glad you brought it up. Actually, I’d like to thank you for bringing it up.
#1 For your self, it’s great that you are expressing your self. So at least you can “maybe” get an idea from some of the replies why neighbors might not offer to help or take your boys to shul.
#2 I would just like to give you my opinion or rather feeling below. And maybe it could help someone. First I’d like to ask you to please, please do not hold it against anyone. People just don’t know what to say or do. Not everyone has the Z’chus to have the knowledge and the courage to help others. The bottom line is most people are good and they afraid they will hurt your feelings. So, I know this might be a hard one for you. But if you really feel you need the help don’t be afraid to ask. And even then some might jump to help and some might not for personnel reasons that you’ll never know. Example: I’d love to bring home a shabbos guest every week. But I know it would be to stressful for my wife or kids etc.. So I don’t even bring it up. I look for other Chesed Mitzvas to do.
So please don’t hold it against them, and if you feel you can ask them try. And for all you know they might be thanking you.
NOW
Why am I writing all this? (Sorry I can’t write details, not to give it all away.)
I have two divorced people living on my block.
I always see things that make me feel so bad, that I wish I just had the courage to walk over to them and ask them if I could help.
(And that is exactly why I thank you for bringing it up.)
But on the other hand, I am always worried for two things, #1 what if I defend anyone. (Even though I know that as long as I don’t say anything hurtful I shouldn’t worry) #2 I’m afraid, that will start asking for to much or for things I can not help them with. And by nature if I start helping someone I can’t just do it half way.
The main point what is bothering me and I always think I should help but then think it’s not my business.
I’ll bring this out and I’ll leave it at that even tough I have more examples.
One divorcee is a father who has a handsome young boy old enough that he looks like he will be Bar Mitzvah in a year or two. But he dose not bring his son to shul. I have a strong feeling that one reason he doesn’t come is because he has a complex or who knows what. He stays home with his sibling from the opposite gender who is way way older and nebech nebech “looks like she would be a very bad influence on his neshomah. But she looks like a very caring sister. believe me I’m not judging her. But the way she dresses I almost resent living on the block with my children. But on the other hand. I keep on thinking. What can I do or say to these people to make them feel liked and part of “US”. The father works hard all day. The son comes home to an empty house, the sis I think has a job. I more then once wanted to ask the pops where his son is in shul and get in to a conversation. But held my self back. Not to say the wrong thing. Obviously the dad knows where the child should be, or maybe not. Or maybe he just can’t help it. He’s a nice guy, I always greet him and say how are you and that’s about it.
Then, recently, we have another divorcee on the block. And this is a women we are talking about. I have no clue who they are. And the history. But she ended up with a few boys. What can I tell you. My heart go’s out for them. They come in to Shul on their own take a Siddur and do not leave their seats until we finish Davening. I Do greet them. Even though I’m not sure if they know where I live. But I know it doesn’t matter. I do it because I want them to feel like they are noticed. They are not a fly on the wall. But I wish I could do more for them. The answr is maybe yes and maybe no. But a good word. A hello, good morning, good shabbos. will not insult anyone.
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