April 21, 2023 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #2182762
We know that looking at things before procreation impacts the looks of the baby, as we learn from Yaakov Avinu and the sheep.
Rebbe Yochanon was very beautiful as we know from the incident with Reish Lokish by the river Yardein. And Rebbe Yochanon would deliberately sit by the mikvah so women coming out would see him and have beautiful children.
I believe Yosef Hatzaddik also did so but I don’t remember the source.
So Yiddishe women looking at handsome men appears not only permissible but encouraged.April 21, 2023 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2182786☕️coffee addictParticipant
Does this have to do with the op Ed?April 21, 2023 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #2182806AviraDeArahParticipant
Baltimore, looking for taavah is totally assur. Seeing men is not.April 21, 2023 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #2182826
Avira – pretty much everything goes after the intentions. Point being that it can be permissible but the mailbag letter indicated it was never permissible. Just saying.April 22, 2023 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #2182828
Addict – it does but it’s also an interesting standalone issueApril 22, 2023 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #2182831Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Indeed, if I remember correctly, gemora wonders how R Yohanan was able to look at them, but not other way around.April 23, 2023 12:00 am at 12:00 am #2182919DontMindMeParticipant
R’ Yochanan would sit there so the women would see his handsome face. We can assume, however, that he didn’t leave open the top 3 buttons on his shirt, or wear “yira’eh kol zechurcha” pants, to expose other attractive body parts.
Also, obviously, we are talking about a Tanna. We are treading on dangerous ground when we start to compare ourselves to Tannaim.
There is a reason why it is largely left to the Rishonim to derive practical halacha from the Gemara.April 23, 2023 1:43 am at 1:43 am #2182935GadolhadorahParticipant
” And Rebbe Yochanon would deliberately sit by the mikvah so women coming out would see him and have beautiful children”
Huh?? Today, the Rebbe would be lucky if Hatzalah didn’t show up and detain him for the police. While I’m not sure exactly what might arguably have been the case at the time of R’ Yochanon, not a good idea today to hang out outside of the mikvah no matter how good looking you may think you are.April 23, 2023 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2183015YiddishParticipant
Learn the rest of the gemera and tosfos
That ask how could the women think of reb yochanon while ……
You should only be thinking of your husband
I think that the answer was that they would be thinking of the kedusa (check yourself )
Also don’t think that he was handsome in our sense for instance it says that his eyebrows covered his eyes completelyApril 23, 2023 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #2183070
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן הֲוָה רְגִיל דַּהֲוָה קָא אָזֵיל וְיָתֵיב אַשַּׁעֲרֵי דִטְבִילָה. אֲמַר: כִּי סָלְקָן בְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל וְאָתְיָין מִטְּבִילָה, מִסְתַּכְּלָן בִּי, וְנֶהֱוֵי לְהוּ זַרְעָא דְּשַׁפִּירֵי
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