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Is a person with an untreated severe mental illness considered to still have bechira (even in the midst of a hallucination or a delusional state) and held responsible for their actions in the bais din shel ma’ala (heavenly courts)?
Seriously? G-d knows what we are capable of and what we are not. And of course only holds us responsible for what we are capable.
I don’t know what he was capable of, or not capable of. And of course, I’m sure that G-d also understands us on a sliding scale of things which are harder for us and things which are easier.
I share your desire to want to be upset at someone, and want to think someone will be held responsible. But I get a lot more solace from believing in a benevolent G-d who would not punish us for things beyond our control.
What about Levi Aron?
What about Levi Aron?
I’m sure G-d was able to figure that out too. I think He may have some “insider information”.
Is a person with an untreated severe mental illness considered to still have bechira….YES
(even in the midst of a hallucination or a delusional state)….NO
and held responsible for their actions in the bais din shel ma’ala (heavenly courts)?….Untreated MI, Yes. Manic state, No
What about Levi Aron?
Levi Aron spent close to 36 hours of time with the boy under his control. He has MI but was NOT in a manic state for 36 hours when he was carefully calculating how to not get caught crossing state lines to attend a wedding with a young boy. His final act may have been manic. But, the entire episode show premeditation and calculation.
This is why he simply pleaded guilty instead of wasting time with an insanity plea. His actions leading to the final manic episode show he knew he was doing wrong, etc.
So NO, Levi Aron is a pure rasha.
There are different levels of mental illness and every case is different.
Some are totally incoherent , some are partially cohenrent.
I wont comment on Levi Aron or Adam Lanza as I am not a psychatrist, nor was I their doctor
Haniglos Lanu Ulivaneinu. I’m glad it’s not my job. Elokim Yir’e Laleivav.
I don’t understand the mind of a murderer (luckily), and I don’t really want to. Forensic psychology sounds like fun but who would want a glimpse into the worst trains of thought? Hashem measures everything. Even the child killer had weirdness that’ll be put on the scale.
As for us, a Rasha is a Rasha, unless he qualifies as a Shotte. Perhaps he had a hard upbringing, perhaps he got himself all worked up into a mad frenzy, perhaps he read some strange philosophy book that justified murder, or he heard a speach from his leader calling for it. So what. Kill him — or whatever the current, local, law is.
My answer obviously has no weight because I am not Gd nor am I a mental health professional, but I sure as heck Have a lot of anger towards this man. He went from jersey to Connecticut, murdered his mother, stole her guns and went to the elementary school guns blazing. There is a certain amount of planning and awareness that goes into something like that. He did not just one day snap and strangle the person next to him in an out of body experience. Hashem is the only who truly knows and will give due punishment ( or not), but I don’t think anyone needs to feel guilty about hating this rasha.
Remember that the halacha is that we only execute a murderer who received a warning beforehand that he acknowledged.
Lacking that vital condition Beis Din does not execute him.
Remember that the halacha is that we only execute a murderer who received a warning beforehand that he acknowledged.
Lacking that vital condition Beis Din does not execute him.
Well, they can if they want to… they just in a much more gruesome manner than they would otherwise do it.
The Wolf
In answer to the OP, I would agree with pba that we can’t know. I just want to point out that there are two elements to the bechirah. Even if he may have been incapable of choosing to not commit his horrible crime, he may have been, at some point, capable of seeking help, yet didn’t.
Re: bombmaniac’s post, I think there’s a logical flaw. To assume that a crime was caused by mental illness is not the same as assuming that mentally ill people tend to be criminals.
I responded there too.
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