May 8, 2012 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #603316hockoftherockMember
i believe all buchrim should have a curfew because most end up tired for shiur the next day and then they learn less, etc.May 8, 2012 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #872883WolfishMusingsParticipant
So, go to sleep early. Who’s stopping you?
Or do you propose to organize a “bedtime posse” to round up those who flout your authority as bedtime monitor?
The WolfMay 8, 2012 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #872884golden momMember
and then the sneak out of the house when you go to sleep and drag race on 13th aveMay 8, 2012 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #872885ConcernedMemberParticipant
Any reason this can’t be considered something that “common sense” would govern?
It’s really very simple. If you go to sleep very late you will be late to shiur and accomplish less. If you go to sleep at a normal time you won’t have trouble waking up and will accomplish more.
Why does this have to be yet another thing that people need to “be told.”May 8, 2012 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #872886☕️coffee addictParticipant
teenager’s are illogical (ergo they have to be told to do it)
from pbs’s website
Giedd and his colleagues found that in an area of the brain called the prefrontal cortex, the brain appeared to be growing again just before puberty. The prefrontal cortex sits just behind the forehead. It is particularly interesting to scientists because it acts as the CEO of the brain, controlling planning, working memory, organization, and modulating mood. As the prefrontal cortex matures, teenagers can reason better, develop more control over impulses and make judgments better. In fact, this part of the brain has been dubbed “the area of sober second thought.”
The fact that this area was still growing surprised the scientists. Although they knew that the brain of a baby grew by over-producing synapses, or connections, they had not known that there was a second period of over-production. In a baby, the brain over-produces brain cells (neurons) and connections between brain cells (synapses) and then starts pruning them back around the age of three. The process is much like the pruning of a tree. By cutting back weak branches, others flourish. The second wave of synapse formation described by Giedd showed a spurt of growth in the frontal cortex just before puberty (age 11 in girls, 12 in boys) and then a pruning back in adolescence.
Even though it may seem that having a lot of synapses is a particularly good thing, the brain actually consolidates learning by pruning away synapses and wrapping white matter (myelin) around other connections to stabilize and strengthen them. The period of pruning, in which the brain actually loses gray matter, is as important for brain development as is the period of growth. For instance, even though the brain of a teenager between 13 and 18 is maturing, they are losing 1 percent of their gray matter every year.
Giedd hypothesizes that the growth in gray matter followed by the pruning of connections is a particularly important stage of brain development in which what teens do or do not do can affect them for the rest of their lives. He calls this the “use it or lose it principle,” and tells FRONTLINE, “If a teen is doing music or sports or academics, those are the cells and connections that will be hardwired. If they’re lying on the couch or playing video games or MTV, those are the cells and connections that are going to survive.”May 9, 2012 2:28 am at 2:28 am #872887YW BandMember
R’Aaron Kotler (I think) tz”l used to shut off the lights of the Beis Medrash at 12am and take all the Achronim off the shranks so the bochrim can actually learn the Reshonim (once & for all) before the Ketzos etcMay 9, 2012 2:56 am at 2:56 am #872888apushatayidParticipant
Hashkamas Beis Hamedrash, Shachris, ViArvis. Interesting Sfas Emes explaining how hashkama and arvis make sense in the same sentence.May 9, 2012 3:31 am at 3:31 am #872889LogicianParticipant
There is actually evidence today that teenagers are “wired” to be “owls” – late to bed and late to rise.
It should be pointed out that the only reason they can’t function after going to sleep late is because they’re expected to wake relatively early.May 9, 2012 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #872890livelovelaughMember
Hockoftherock, honestly who do you think you are? I think YOU should have a curfew because if you go to sleep late, YOULL be tired and less productive the next day. And if you say you won’t, then who are you to generalize on all bochrim? This is also one of the reasons that so many ”bochrim” are rebellious or go otd. Stop generalizing and holding every single one of them to a higher standard. Just leave them alone already. Stop babying them.May 9, 2012 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #872891Loyal JewParticipant
Wolf and Concerned Member, please don’t make it into an issue of personal freedom. Don’t we agree that yeshiva (and life) is about serving Hashem and sustaining Am Yisroel?May 9, 2012 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #872892always runs with scissors fastParticipant
when my eyes first glanced over this threads’ title, I read “Bedtime stories for Bucherim”.May 9, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #872893mewhoParticipant
Just add it to the list. Soon we will read about how so and so was seen on 13th avenue past what the ”machers” consider a good bedtime.
Remember when the ”machers” said no bright colors for women or gold or silver shoes…..give it a break !May 9, 2012 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #872894mewhoParticipant
by the way…years ago when I went to Bais Yaakov I didn’t wear a uniform. The only girls wearing uniforms were the ones in Catholic school.
Now we look similar to them in that fashion. Didn’t know we are trying to emulate themMay 9, 2012 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #872895apushatayidParticipant
Yeah. Cut the curfew. Stop babying them. Let them suffer any consequences of going through life half asleep. If they miss davening, seder, shiur or sleepwalk through a date, hopefully they’ll adjust. Just hope they adjust before they drive themselves and a carload of friends off the road.May 9, 2012 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #872896livelovelaughMember
apushatayid- as if no jewish adults get into car accidents? Tragic events happen to many people, of all ages unfortunately, and you can’t shut life down to avoid it. I’m in NO way trying to trivialize that horrific accident, but I guess it must be defined which age group we’re talking about. Are we talking about high school kids? in that case, yes i agree there should probably be some kind of curfew. But when I see bochrim, i think of post-high school, bais medrash aged guys. In that case, I think it is totally ridiculous to try (and believe me, for the most part it wouldn’t work) to force 20 year old young adults who are no longer children to have a curfew. im willing to bet most of the people writing that they should probably dont have chuildren that age or they wouldn’t be writing it. If they do, boy do i feel bad for your kids. While this curfew thing is only a trivial example, it is representative of the overbearing attitude in judaism that makes many young people start to dislike and even hate it.
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