Beis Din Recommendation

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  • #617133

    Joseph
    Participant

    Does anyone have a recommendation for a Beis Din in Brooklyn for a financial dispute?

    #1139975

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    Bais Yosef,

    Mechon L’Choshen Mishpat (R’ Chaim KOhn),

    Bais Din Tzedek Umishpot

    #1139976

    pcoz
    Member

    Well done for not going to arcaos.

    #1139978

    Joseph
    Participant

    Yasher Koach.

    #1139979

    Health
    Participant

    I second Bais Yosef.

    #1139980

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Joseph has a Beis Din in his house?

    #1139981

    theprof1
    Participant

    R’ CHAIM COHEN IS A GAON IN CHOSHEN MISHPOT AND AN EXTREMELY HONEST PERSON. BEST PLACE TO GO.

    #1139982

    Joseph
    Participant

    M42: I only handle Ben Sorer U’Moreh cases.

    #1139983

    Sam2
    Participant

    Joseph: So you’re the Sanhedrin HaGadol in Yerushalayim? Good to know.

    #1139984

    Joseph
    Participant

    How’d you figure it out – was it my powdered wig or was it the robes?

    #1139985

    Joseph
    Participant

    How does a beis din typically structure their fees – it is split 50/50 between the plaintiff and defendant?

    What dollar range do beis din fees typically fall between?

    #1139986

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph>>>

    copied and pasted from the website of Beth Din of America in NYC:

    FEES

    Typically, a din torah case is heard by a panel of three dayanim (arbitrators) at the rate of $300 per hour per side ($600 per hour total). Cases involving amounts in controversy of less than $10,000 are typically heard by a single dayan at the rate of $150 per hour per side ($300 per hour total

    #1139987

    Joseph
    Participant

    BDA might have a higher fee structure than an average Chareidi beis din, perhaps?

    #1139988

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    BDA tries to be more transparent than charedi beis dins and the reason is they are trying to get people to use them rather than secular courts so they try to be more open. Unfortunalty many chaerdi beis dins arent as fair as their should be. and this is not coming from me , Even Rav Schecter has said so publically I think in Mishpacha (or simialar magazine)

    #1139989

    Joseph
    Participant

    He is Modern Orthodox and affiliated with the BDA, which is an arm of the RCA, thus not a neutral observer. I would strongly dispute they are fairer than the average Chareidi beis din. Indeed when it comes to sensitive cases (involving more than just financial issues) where modern sensibilities conflict with straight halacha, they are liable to bend halachic considerations in rendering a verdict.

    #1139990

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL, incidentally, how frequently and in what iterations do you see cases in your practice intersect with a beis din case?

    #1139991

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph……….

    as a trust and family law attorney, any Jewish clients seeking a civil divorce are informed of the necessity of procuring a Get from a Beis Din in order to be able to remarry.

    I have sent many to Batei Din for gittin and incorporated the get in the civil case record.

    I don’t do a lot of contact work, except for my trust clients. But if there is a contract dispute and both parties are Jewish I do recommend a Beis Din before a civil trial. I have one family in particular, where I handle 5 generations of people who have trusts and beneficiaries who submit to the Beis Din when there are disputes concerning the trusts.

    #1139992

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph….

    The Beth Din of America is NOT affiliated with the RCA. It became an autonomous organization back in 1994. Many people still have this misconception.

    #1139993

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph………

    regarding fee structures………..

    The Beth Din of America has set fees to maintain an ongoing organization with offices and full time employees.

    This is quite different than Hareidi/Chasidic batei din comprised of part time Dayanim and witnesses gathered on the spot.

    To save clients future aggravation I recommend BDA for gittin, as the records are stored in an ongoing concern, not some basement and I know if we need the records 30 years out so a child born of a second marriage can be married in EY or out of town, I can access the records. This peace of mind is worth the $200 the client might save on a get from a lesser known beis din.

    #1139994

    Joseph
    Participant

    What is the typical fee for a gittin case? The same hourly earlier quoted?

    BTW, the BDA website states that they are “affiliated” with the RCA and OU.

    #1139995

    Joseph
    Participant

    If one of the parties (say the defendent) cannot afford the beis din fees, what does a beis din do considering the halachic problem of accepting more in fees from one party to the case than the other may constitute bribery?

    #1139996

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joesph…

    A simple Get…where the beis din doesn’t have to travel to the clients out of town and both parties are present typically runs from $500-$800.

    I recently brought a Chabad beis din from Brooklyn to CT for a client’s get. The wife was planning to remarry within the Chabad sphere, the couple had a civil divorce granted 5 years ago and had lived apart for 7 years. The dayan’s driver was also the sofer and a member of the tribunal and a cousin of the dayan, who is a long time rebbe in a local day school (a true Talmud Chocham with smicha) served as the 3rd member. We used a classroom at the day school as a neutral site. The fees were $1200 including travel and we made a $100 donation to the day school for use of the room.

    As for my use of the word affiliated, it may have been a poor choice. Since 1994 BDA is an autonomous organization, not a branch of RCA. I think the affiliation refers to the fact that BDA’s dayanim are members of the RCA/UOJCA and those organizations hold by BDA decisions and refer cases there.

    #1139997

    Joseph
    Participant

    Why do you need a beis din of three altogether for an uncontested Get?

    #1139998

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    From what I’ve seen of R’ Hershel Shechter’s anti-B”D tirades, most of his ta’anos are that Batei Din that allow to’anim are dishonest, which is too general a statement to be accurate. I’ve also seen him spread literal libel about certain Batei Din.

    B”D usually charges per hour, as mentioned, and it is split between the plaintiff and defendant. In the extremely rare cases where the plaintiff had no real claim, and the defendant went to b”d only because he didn’t have a choice in the matter, his fee is usually waived. (I don’t know if the plaintiff has to pay it, or if b”d loses out.)

    It is wisest to go to a reputable b”d and that neither side should have to’anim. If the dayyanim are talmidei chachaim (if they’re not, find a different b”d), to’anim are unnecessary and are just an additional expense. R’ Shechter also has a valid point that to’anim could drag out a case, and that in inept batei din, the to’anim could cause a misruling. This isn’t c”v saying that all to’anim are crooks, and k”v not saying that all batei din that allow to’anim are corrupt.

    #1139999

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph,

    One doesn’t need three, but in this case the driver/sofer and rebbi also served as the witnesses. The dayan from Brooklyn doesn’t take/use non-Chabad witnesses and he doesn’t have to say to someone local you are not acceptable to me.

    The cost would not have been any cheaper if we needed a dayan and a sofer plus non=partisan witnesses.

    #1140000

    Health
    Participant

    Joe -“Why do you need a beis din of three altogether for an uncontested Get”

    You don’t! For my Get, I used the Sofer & 2 Eidim.

    The 3 come together.

    #1140001

    Joseph
    Participant

    How much did it cost you, Health? Were the costs split?

    #1140002

    Health
    Participant

    Joe -“A simple Get…where the beis din doesn’t have to travel to the clients out of town and both parties are present typically runs from $500-$800”

    “How much did it cost you, Health?”

    This is a good price. I had to pay more because of travel.

    “Were the costs split?”

    No. I wanted a Get, so I had to pay for it! But I didn’t want to divorce.

    #1140003

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    You can try the beis din with Rav Reisman on it, which has offices in downtown Brooklyn.

    #1140004

    Joseph
    Participant

    Is it correct that Rav Moshe paskens in the Igros Moshe that either litigant has the right to insist that the dayanim use only din and not peshara?

    If the standard shtar berurin permits the dayanim to use pershara, can one of the parties decline signing it unless it is modified to remove the language permitting peshara?

    #1140005

    I wanted a Get, so I had to pay for it! But I didn’t want to divorce.

    So, you’re saying your wife was no longer religious, Health?

    #1140006

    Health
    Participant

    Comlink-X -“So, you’re saying your wife was no longer religious, Health?”

    Whatever I’m saying – it isn’t to any trolls!

    #1140007

    You say that you didn’t want to divorce, but you did get divorced,

    so your wife must have been the one who wanted the divorce.

    You also say that you had to pay for the Get because you wanted it,

    so presumably your wife didn’t want it or she would also have paid.

    That would mean she wanted to get divorced, but did not want a Get,

    which isn’t something one expects of a frum person…

    #1140008

    zichmich
    Member

    Comlink-X

    “You say that you didn’t want to divorce, but you did get divorced,

    so your wife must have been the one who wanted the divorce.”

    I believe that Health has indicated in other threads that she is female. She needs the get in order to be able to remarry.

    #1140009

    Health
    Participant

    Zichmich -“I believe that Health has indicated in other threads that she is female. She needs the get in order to be able to remarry.”

    Sorry to disappoint – I’m male! You must be getting me mixed up with PBA (Poppa). Some posters say – she is female.

    The reason I don’t respond to Comlink-X is because he/she is trolling!

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