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- This topic has 6 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 2 weeks, 4 days ago by frishe_nayes.
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November 12, 2024 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #2331906lama_loParticipant
Why do Belzer chasidim wear navy stripes on their taleisim? What is the source of this minhag? It seems to be a more recent development.
November 13, 2024 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2332311Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantThey are in honor of the Tzahal Beltzer navy seal unit.
November 13, 2024 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2332344Happy new yearParticipantThe whole purpose of the stripes is to remind us of the Tcheles (see Trumas Hadeshen)
So it should be blue. Why it was historically black is the better question. Perhaps it was easier in olden times
November 13, 2024 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2332495pekakParticipantBlack is a much newer development than “Belz” blue.
November 13, 2024 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2332507pure yiddishkeitParticipantIt is not at all a new trend.
It is mostly by Belzer Chassidim, but not limited only to them.
the source is not 100% clear, as it is an ancient minhag dating back so far that it isn’t really clear from when.
It is supposed to symbolise a zecher to techelet, as techelet wasn’t/isn’t around (machaloket poskim), and serves as a reminder of techelet.That was how they used to make tzitzis all over was with a slight blueish ting, not a strong blue, but a very dark mild blue-almost black.
However, when the so called “religious” zionists started putting blue on their taletim to symbolise their flag, it was widely accepted all over not to go anymore with blue stripes, even as mild as they were, however Belz decided to stay with blue, citing their mesorah.November 17, 2024 10:16 am at 10:16 am #2332895Neville Chaimberlin Lo MesParticipantBelz was noheig to get their talleisin davka from Tunisia because there was a mesora that fabric produced there did not have shatnez (it’s brought down in achronim). Happens to be that the talleisin from there had dark blue stripes. They’ve since stopped using that supplier as it turned out it actually did have shatnez, but they kept the blue stripes.
If anyone knows more about this and wants to correct anything I said, feel free. It’s nothing to do with the modern, light blue ones. The assertion people have made above that black tallisin are a reaction to zionism is a myth that needs to die. Not only are there easily available paintings that confirm black ones pre-1948, but many individuals even own talleisin from their ancestors from 100+ years ago with black stripes (even from non-Ashkenazi regions!). In any case, this has nothing to do with what the OP asked about.
November 17, 2024 10:17 am at 10:17 am #2333044frishe_nayesParticipantI once spoke to one of the big talis manufacturers about this.
He said that before the war when most of the taleisim were handmade the had dark blue stripes as a zeicher to the techeiles.
Later on when the started producing them commercially they had issues with the blue dye that it became washed out and faded so they made everything black to was more practical.
Since nowdays they are able to use the blue dye without any issues, Belz and many other chasidim renewed the minhag of going with the blue stripes zecher to techeiles. -
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