December 6, 2011 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #601022
im confused why so many rabbi’s give speaches about ben yehuda st and “town” its the same as ave j in brooklyn and i dont hear parents or rabbi’s saying that its assur to go get falafel there?December 7, 2011 12:59 am at 12:59 am #835705sam4321Participant
They are talking about crack square which has a lot of bars and drugs(block down from kikar tzion).December 7, 2011 1:37 am at 1:37 am #835706
this is why Rabbi Falk said the seperate bochurim and sem girl times in Gateshead should be introduced everywhere (or something like that-one raya he brings is what Rambam writes their should be shomrim in the orchards, river banks, and fields lest their is mingling of the genders)December 7, 2011 2:02 am at 2:02 am #835707Sam2Participant
MichaelC: You have been asked many times to stop referencing that (at the very least out of context). Why do you insist on doing it?December 7, 2011 2:10 am at 2:10 am #835708always hereParticipant
absolutely no comparison between Ave. J & Crack Square.. the bars there serve young teens! :/December 7, 2011 2:11 am at 2:11 am #835709popa_bar_abbaParticipant
this is why Rabbi Falk said the seperate bochurim and sem girl times in Gateshead should be introduced everywhere
No. This is not why. The guys and girls in machaneh yehuda are not accidentally running into each other. They are going there specifically to socialize with each other over alcohol (and sometimes illegal drugs).
That is like saying that the purpose of outlawing handguns is to prevent Iran from nuking us.December 7, 2011 3:37 am at 3:37 am #835710
popa_bar_abba: +1. Cmon, make mincemeat of ‘im, he’s raising my blood pressure. I think I may say something I’ll regret.December 7, 2011 4:35 am at 4:35 am #835712shmoolik 1Participant
the problem in zion square and ben yehuda is that good american parents dump their problematic kids in israeli yeshivos and sem while they ignore their need for professional help don’t blame the kids blame the parents for for ignoring their kids emotional and intellectual needs and dumping them in the streets of bklyn and yerushalayimDecember 7, 2011 4:46 am at 4:46 am #835713
your all just afraid of the truthDecember 7, 2011 4:53 am at 4:53 am #835714
popa people take drugs and alcohol for reasons to intermix with genders (main reason)-don’t fool yourself, i have proofs from the talmud.December 7, 2011 5:07 am at 5:07 am #835715Sam2Participant
MichaelC: And what truth is that? That you enjoy inventing Halachos and calling others not frum for not following your distortion of Halacha/Mesorah?December 7, 2011 5:29 am at 5:29 am #835721sem graduateMember
Ben Yehuda tends to become a social hangout; if you have groups of girls and groups of boys all hanging out, the inevitable will happen, which is why the rabbanim assur itDecember 7, 2011 7:42 am at 7:42 am #835725
lemaysa: there’s always the off-chance of getting bombed, too.December 7, 2011 7:52 am at 7:52 am #835726
MichaelC: “popa people take drugs and alcohol for reasons to intermix with genders (main reason)-don’t fool yourself, i have proofs from the talmud.”
You are not making sense. To which of popa’s points are you taking exception?
I can just see separate visiting times for girls and boys in Ben Yehuda!December 7, 2011 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #835728Derech HaMelechMember
I think they are mainly referring to kikar tzion (crack square) since that is where the main socializing (drinking and drugs) take place. Altough it does also take place in ben yehudah, malcha, eilat etc as well.
I think the difference is that in brooklyn, since there are parents around, the parents will act as (legal)guardians and guard their children to the best of their abilities.December 8, 2011 1:04 am at 1:04 am #835732
A.chocandpatience i think its wrong to say anything like that to chas vashalom to happen and bh there hasnt been a terrorist attack there in years…B theres more drugs and drug deals going on ave j then there are in the entire town area..besides for the fact that parents have no control of their kids i personly know many bochurim that go back to america because the availblity of drinkin drugging and any other tavah they want is easier to get hold..December 8, 2011 2:22 am at 2:22 am #835733popa_bar_abbaParticipant
popa people take drugs and alcohol for reasons to intermix with genders (main reason)-don’t fool yourself, i have proofs from the talmud.
Like chocopatience so eloquently said, you are not making any sense.
That was precisely my point. That they go there specifically to socialize with the other gender (and worse), and that having separate boys and girls times is irrelevant to this discussion.December 8, 2011 3:00 am at 3:00 am #835734mommamia22Participant
As far as I know the only one who got the real reason is real Israeli.
Ben yehudah has been a social hangout for years. I don’t know anything about this drug area, but I suspect that that did not start out as the original reason.
Shmoolik: unless I misunderstood your words/meaning, I find your response offensive. It’s a blanket statement that, IMHO, is incorrect, and insulting.December 8, 2011 10:09 am at 10:09 am #835735
lemaysa: you’re right
Mommamia22, this might interest you:
When looking into a yeshiva for a family member, we were told that sending an at-risk teen to EY was ‘homicide’. (Though I don’t remember whether he referred to EY or specifically Yerushalayim.) With a short bus ride, he’s in Ben Yehuda or the like and can still be sitting cherubically back in class on time.
(I think that even for a boy who is not OTD, one still needs to wary if he’s the type to get easily influenced.)December 11, 2011 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #835736ToiParticipant
nooooooo shaychis. kikar tziyon/crack square is a disgusting place to be. if i ever have to go there (theres a ATM that gives dollars which i need to pay rent) i get all queasy and wanna throw up. no shaychis to anywhere in america.December 12, 2011 2:41 am at 2:41 am #835737
btw theres no atm’s in crack squire theres one by kikar tzion and i dont see what makes you throw up is it the jewish people walking down the street or the smell theres more pritzus on the subway then there is on the entire yaffo….December 12, 2011 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #835738ToiParticipant
lemaysa- kikar tziyon and crack square are one and the same.what makes me wanna throw up is seeing so many “bochurim” and bnos yisroel acting the way they do. and seeing this pritzus and knowing its jews and that where theyre holding is a zillion times worse then the subway.December 12, 2011 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #835739TheTrollMember
never mix (or take) drugs and alcohol!
I don’t know what Michael c is on about but if the rabonim made seperate times for boys and girls in crack square, I don’t know how that could be enforced, in fact it would be one big jokeDecember 18, 2011 1:02 am at 1:02 am #835740
if u really care for them you should daven for them such a response of “throwing up” would only push people away from the right path …these problems you see stem from the usa were theres no one saying how it is in there own home towns..December 18, 2011 1:28 am at 1:28 am #835741always hereParticipant
Toi: “lemaysa- kikar tziyon and crack square are one and the same.”
wrong! they’re a block apart.
Kikar Tzion has the ATM’s, a big bank, loads of shops.
Crack Square has bars, for example: Kings & further down- Zoli’s.December 18, 2011 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #835742adamsParticipant
But the good outweights the bad.
Usually someone already tried drugs/alchohol before going to Israel. In many cases, in fact, it is easier to avoid since they don’t know anyone at this crack sq. and would have to spend time being ‘vetted’.
There are many more cases of kids getting away from the connections to that they already have and getting inspired from being in Eretz Yisroel.
the other case of someone who never tried drugs/alchohol and then trying this in crack sq. is also less likely.
they wouldn’t know how to act in such a setting.
they would likely be introduced by a friend in the seminary or yeshiva (And/or).
This can happen but as you see, it’s a minority of cases.
THe ones who used D/A in their hometowns and then go to Israel with every intention of immediatly using, would have continued to use in their hometowns anyway.
The issue is recovery and theauputic programs to offer them alternatives to drug/alchohol use/abuse.
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