January 22, 2009 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #672061
I have witnessed many Rabbonim (most)in Flatbush saying “Gut Shabbos” to every Yid they pass or meet in the street: young and old, male and female; including Joseph’s Rav.January 22, 2009 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #672062areivimzehlazehParticipant
The mods really listen to me! I’m touched to the core (or as my friends are fond of saying- touched in the brain)January 22, 2009 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #672063coke not pepsiMember
flatbush27—i know some very nice and aidel 5towns people(k more some-alot of them are) and alot of farrockaway people who are very! 5townsy, so be carefull bec i know people by shidduchim who are shocked that there are good normal girls living in the 5 towns(it just shows what a stupid stereotype can do)January 22, 2009 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #672064lesschumrasParticipant
Let’s try again. So, if you were to be invited for a Shabbos meal, would you ignore any women present, not say good Shabbos, not thank your hostess for her hospitality etc? What has gone wrong with our education that we are so insecure as to perceive a simple good Shabbos as anything but innocent?January 22, 2009 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #672066syriansephardiMember
I don’t think there’s a problem with an older man saying shabbat shalom to a younger girl but I don’t think its so good for a young man to say shabbat shalom to a young girl: like moish said he was say to the old ladys grand daughter…. And moish why can’t u say shabbat shalom to the old lady? Its ok to be nice u no! And hey u never no maybe the grandma will think ur a nice voy and have a grand daughter for u…lol keep it in mind!!January 22, 2009 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #672067areivimzehlazehParticipant
lesschumras- see squeak’s post/suggestion aboveJanuary 23, 2009 1:03 am at 1:03 am #672069
cherrybim, Joseph’s Rav does not say Good Shabbos to every female they pass or meet in the street.January 23, 2009 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #672070gavra_at_workParticipant
Ames: you have put it very well.January 23, 2009 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #672071
ames, the alternative is to follow squeak’s suggestion.January 27, 2009 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #672073January 28, 2009 2:07 am at 2:07 am #672074Itzik_sMember
Everyone knows that the best part of living in the 5 Towns is the LIRR right back to Brooklyn!January 28, 2009 2:53 am at 2:53 am #672075
cherrybim, everything you said in your last comment is true. But you were mistaken in your first comment. I used to walk home with him almost every day, and he wouldn’t initiate greetings with females on the street.January 28, 2009 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #672076jphoneMember
I’m not so sure this Rav wants to be talked about in cyberspace 🙂January 28, 2009 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #672077
OK, whose ready for the big shock?
Concerning this issue I totally 100% agree with keepinentertained, oomis, Sjs, yossia & co.
Saying “Good Shabbos” is not “talking to a girl”, it’s basic mentchlichkeit.
This is one of the few things which really bugged me when I moved to Eretz Yisroel. No one here says Good Shabbos, but back in Brooklyn (at least when I was growing up) EVERYONE did. Old men, young men, old women, young women, children – whoever you’d see would be greeted with a “Good Shabbos”.
That is NOT pritzus.January 28, 2009 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #672078
notpashut: Good G’zagt (well said)!January 28, 2009 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #672079rikMember
In my neighborhood growing up we always joked that GS was a pick-up line. Of course it depends how you say it….January 28, 2009 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #672080Itzik_sMember
It really depends on community practices. There are some communities, usually Chassidish ones, where saying gut shabbos to a member of the opposite gender is not accepted. That is probably the standard that has permeated into E”Y, especially Yerushalayim.
But if you don’t live in such a community, adopting that practice really isn’t the best chumra you can take on.January 28, 2009 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #672081
Don’t worry Itzik, I stopped saying good shabbos to people here in EY after the first twenty people either ignored me or looked at me like I’m some kind of weirdo who just fell off the moon.
One of my favorite parts of visiting the “alte heim” is saying good shabbos to my fellow yidden – even oomis! 🙂January 28, 2009 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #672082
“is saying good shabbos to my fellow yidden – even oomis! 🙂 “
And if we ever run into each other on Shabbos (assuming I know who you are, at the time), I promise to be makdim b’shabbat sholom.January 28, 2009 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #672083
🙂January 28, 2009 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #672084
notpashut, I agree with you…more and more! What is this world coming to? 🙂January 28, 2009 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #672085
I guess if Obama can become president & we can agree three times in a week then we’re ready for Moshiach. 🙂January 28, 2009 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #672086
Ooh lets try! Here are two other things I think we can agree on:
1) Hashem runs the world
2) I make the best chili 🙂January 28, 2009 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #672087
Im not notpashut, but how can you prove #2 without a recipe?January 28, 2009 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #672088
Anon, blind faith 🙂 I don’t have a written recipe, but the most important step is that when you brown the onions and ground beef, you then soak it in beer. All the alcohol burns off and then you add the tomato sauce/paste, hot peppers, spices etc.January 28, 2009 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #672089
SJS, neat idea. I can’t do beer though because my daughter can’t have it.January 28, 2009 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #672090moish01Member
anon, i hope you don’t mean because she’s underage… is she allergic or something?January 28, 2009 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #672091
All my kids are underage, but I do use wine in cooking (it makes for delicious gravy). As SJS noted, nearly all the alcohol burns away during cooking anyway. My daughter can’t eat wheat, barley, rye, or spelt because she has celiac disease (gluten intolerance). It’s not exactly the same as an allergy, but similar. Since most beer, and probably all kosher ones, are made from barley, I wouldn’t use it as an ingredient in a dish I’m cooking for my family.January 28, 2009 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #672092
Anon, if I understand correctly, celiac’s disease is genetic. Does that mean you or your husband have it? (if this is too personal, feel free to notanswer) There are two families in my neighborhood with Celiacs.January 28, 2009 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #672093
SJS, no, we have no family history of celiac at all. We only found out she had it because she was screened for it due to poor growth. They screened her for all kinds of problems, like cystic fibrosis & Turner’s syndroms, so it was a great relief b”h that the diagnosis required only a change in diet.
Gluten intolerance (I prefer to call it that because as long as one sticks to the diet there’s no manifestation of “disease”) does tend to run in families and is more common in certain ethnic groups (it’s much more common in Ireland for example). I don’t think the heritability (is that a real word?) is well-understood though. Most celiacs I know have multiple first degree relatives with celiac but I know other families like ours, with only one gluten-intolerant member.January 29, 2009 12:50 am at 12:50 am #672094
notpashut, you said that in Brooklyn (as compared to Eretz Yisroel) it is standard practice for people to say Good Shabbos to each other?
I wish that were so…January 29, 2009 1:25 am at 1:25 am #672095moish01Member
anon- got itJanuary 29, 2009 1:49 am at 1:49 am #672096
Anon that is interesting. I’m sorry your daughter has to deal with this. Is your entire home gluten free? What kind of challah do you use? How about matzah?January 29, 2009 2:24 am at 2:24 am #672097
When possible, I try to either make family meals gluten-free or provide a substitute my daughter likes. If I’m preparing meatloaf or similar foods, it’s easy to avoid recipes containing gluten or substitute as necessary. But when I make pizza or cook pasta, I prepare a gluten-free version for my daughter and a regular version for everyone else. Since gluten-free food is much more expensive than regular, this is a lot cheaper than making gluten-free food for everyone, and after trial and error, I’ve found choices she likes. I buy or bake regular and gluten-free cakes, cookies, and other snacks. Generally I try to make sure that if she can’t eat what we have, she finds her choices as attractive as ours, or better.
I usually buy challah for the rest of us from the bakery, and my daughter eats oat matzah.
She’s been gluten-free for most of her life, and doesn’t remember anything else. The diet is sometimes a challenge, but as long as she keeps to it (and b”h the blood tests show that she has) she’ll have no ill effects b”h. And when I think about some of the differential diagnoses I’m grateful for that.January 29, 2009 2:56 am at 2:56 am #672098
So as long as she follows a Pesachdig non-gebrochts diet, she is ok?January 29, 2009 3:16 am at 3:16 am #672099
oomis, that’s it exactly. Even though our minhag is to eat gebrochts in pesach, we’ve gone non-gebrochts since she was diagnosed (I encourage my kids to put matzah in their soup so they won’t forget that’s our minhag). Even though preparing for pesach is a lot of work I love that there’s one week during the year when we all eat the same food, except for the matza. And after pesach I shop the grocery store clearance sales to stock up on cake mixes and macaroons for the rest of the year.
She can also eat rice, corn, and beans, which we don’t eat on pesach. As I mentioned, she also eats oats. Some celiacs don’t but her GI doc said it’s ok, and it’s worked great for her.January 29, 2009 4:22 am at 4:22 am #672100syriansephardiMember
She can come eat rice at my house 🙂 lol I’m jokingJanuary 29, 2009 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #672101
I said that when I was growing up it was standard practice. I don’t know about today, but I can tell you that even today if you say good shabbos to someone (male or female) they don’t look at you like you are some nutcase.January 29, 2009 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #672102
Does the chili get served in a tortilla? Otherwise I’m not interested.January 29, 2009 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #672103lesschumrasParticipant
ames said “i don’t think it’s right for them to feel comfortable enough to greet a man they don’t know in the street. i’m sorry but i think it’s brazen. it’s not natural”
I appreciate the fact that you do feel somewhat insecure and you are entitled to have those feelings. However, look at your quote. It might not be right for you, but aren’t others entitled to their own feelings, just as you are to yours? Also, we get into problems when we apply labels to people. Maybe this girl grew up in a small town where this was the mihnhag, yet you are labelling her as brazen, which is a pejorative. Isn’t that just as wrong as if someone unfairly labelled you as cold, unfriendly or a fanatic because they felt it wasn’t right for you NOT to feel comfortable enough?
Give it some thought. ThanksJanuary 29, 2009 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #672104
Does the chili get served in a tortilla? Otherwise I’m not interested.
I can arrange that! Usually I serve it over a bed of rice, but I will make an exception for you! Do you want anything else in there? Lettuce, avacado, refried beans? Let me know and I’ll set up the spread!January 29, 2009 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #672105
Lettuce, thanx…….hmmm…maybe a bed of rice aint so bad after all.
Oy vey!January 30, 2009 12:50 am at 12:50 am #672106
Ames that may work for you, but would never work for me.
Why do I have to keep the laws of tznius? Because Hashem decided that female body parts are ervah, and gave the rabbonim the knowledge/power to pasken as to where those defined lines are. I am not covering up for any man or any other woman – just for ME.
If someone has shalom bayit issues because they see a thinner/prettier/better dressed etc. they have more marital issues. There is always someone “better” out there. There is no excemption for a man not to control his thoughts even amongst women who are completely tzanua.January 30, 2009 7:49 am at 7:49 am #672107asdfghjklParticipant
ames: i like the theory!!!!January 30, 2009 8:30 am at 8:30 am #672108qwertyuiopMember
ames: i think that is a great theory.$April 29, 2009 4:01 am at 4:01 am #672109
I find that when I go to Israel, the Jews there are sometimes not so nice or considerate of other Jews. American Jews find Israeli behavior as tough, insulting, rude, and less civil than the way we behave. But I think that out-of-towners feel the same way about Jews living in New York. Whenever I go out-of-town, I am amazed by the hospitality and warmth that the Jews living there exude. They understand better the value of a Jewish brother or sister.
I agree with ames’ post. Well said. It is sad, however, that the E”Y of today is so very different from the one that I remember from 1971 (no, I have never been able to go back, though I have sent all my children there). When I was in E”Y, people were friendly, warm, inviting, eager to help, and never rude. If a woman got on a bus, several men would get up to offer her a seat. If an elderly person got on, men and women would all get up. Nowadays, I am told you would NEVER see anyone get up even for a pregnant woman with other little kids in tow. If that is so, it is deplorable. I do agree strongly with the idea that out of town Jews feel the need to stick together. There is a camaraderie that you do not always find elsewhere.April 29, 2009 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #672110mepalMember
ames: I was out of town one shabbos and a group of about 4 men passed me. I was alone then and single. 3 of the men were married and the fourth was an older teenage boy (for obvious reasons he wasn’t married). I did not mind the other men telling me good shabbos, but when the boy did (with a huge grin across his face), I was quite surprised. I did not think it was so appropriate at all. You gotta know your place.April 29, 2009 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #672111BemusedParticipant
“I am not covering up for any man or any other woman – just for ME.”
SJS, I can certainly understand that stance, I like to do things for ME too. However, I consider this issue, in addition to the other, halachik considerations noted, as part of my Bein Adam L’Chaveiro. I daven to Hashem that no one should have an inappropriate thought precipitated by my actions/dress, just as I am careful that my actions and manner of speech make others feel welcome and at ease, when appropriate. The Bein Adam L’Chaveiro component of Tznius is very important to me.April 29, 2009 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #672112
Bemused, that is a very nice thought, and I just want to clarify a bit.
What I cover, how I behave, what I say…its all based on my halachic path (not that I make up, that I get from my rabbinic authorities). I certainly hope that my mannerisms/dress/actions do not cause anyone else to sin. And, to a certain extent I do follow the “minhag hamakom” for non-halachic (not even chumra really) things if I can.
But ultimately, my mitzvah of keeping tzniut is for me. As is keeping kosher, keeping Shabbos etc. All of our actions can effect others positively and negatively, but as long as you are following halacha, that is fine. There is a limit to what you have to do for others in order for them to keep their mitzvot.April 29, 2009 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #672113BemusedParticipant
SJS, I think we are in agreement then. The specifics of what we feel are appropriate may differ, but our interests are the same.
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