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i just found out that one of my best friends is involved with my brother. they have been texting and talking for quite a while and i dont know what to do. they dont think i know but i know my friend has had some guy problems before and i tried to help her but obviously… i dont really know what to do cuz im from a yeshivish family and this isnt ok (to me at least) should i talk to my friend or my brother? i dont think either of them would listen to me. im kind of flipping out. neone have advice 4 me??
Speak to your parents about this.
If your brother and your friend are not as Yeshivish as you then you have to figure out what happens from their position. You may be forced to just ride it out. As long as they don’t do anything Assur (other than talking, if you hold that is Assur) then there may not be a need to risk anything drastic on stopping them. Who knows? They may even make a Shidduch about this someday. Asking a Rav you know who knows both of them as well never hurts either.
I think part of the question is are they ready to “date” for marriage. If the answer is no, then you should definately say something to your parents.
If yes, what are your concerns? That it’s not tachlis, that you don’t approve of her for him or that you think they might step over the line of appropriateness? How frum is he? if he’s not yeshivish you may not be able to hold him to those standards. If he is, talk to him. Tell him your concerns, if you think he’ll listen. If not, consult with a rav before talking to your parents. You need to know from a religious standpoint what you should be doing (and not doing, so as not to break up a potential shidduch). I would talk to your parents only after talking to a rav.
How old are your brother and your friend? Are they old enough to be in the “shidduch parsha”? If they are, I suggest that you mind your own business. It’s a good bet that your parents or grandparents met the same way. I.E. socially. (not texting, of course).
In the frum community boys and girls don’t meet “socially”. We all now what kind of terrible problems that leads to, which is why the OP is correct to be concerned.
Talk to your brother, and try to convince him to “go public”. Tell him you will claim to have been the shaddchan, and they will lose no face (even if they are only 17-18, they can still get married).
Then they get engaged, married & live happily ever after.
The End.
Cinderella, see if they’re willing to talk to Rabbi Wallerstein.
no they r not getting married. its like out of the question.
I know there is an “Ew” factor (my brother & my best friend! EWW!), but actually it is quite normal. There should be nothing wrong with them getting married (unless there is a Halachic issue).
If your Rosh HaYeshiva is 60 years old or older, I’d be willing to bet that he met his wife socially.
Examples please?
I have several Roshei HaYeshivos, all over 60. None of them met socially. Nor will any of them allow a talmid today to meet girls socially.
There are major differences between our society today and that in Europe. For one, nobody in Europe then dressed like society does here. The entire attitude of sexual permissiveness has infected our society far more than in any other. This, like anything else in society, unfortunately, has a clear trickle-down effect to everyone no matter how frum they are unless they really work on themselves. So social meeting in a suit and tie or long coat versus social meeting in casual clothes or worse in today’s society cannot be compared.
To put it more bluntly, social-meeting today causes people to be attracted to each other for purely physical reasons (this goes for guys and even for girls) rather than for crucial personality and compatibility reasons (which is one reason why a shadchan who can try to determine this before-hand is so helpful), besides for physical attraction.
cinderella, your option is to talk to your parents and let them know what you know. If the only thing you are concerned about is your own reputation in all of this, then you have nothing to worry about. If you are concerned about your friend’s reputation, then you should speak to her about your concerns. If you are concerned about your brother’s reputation then speak to him about your concerns. That is all you can do.
You can’t control other people just yourself. You can’t micro manage what other people do. Everyone is responsible for their own choices. You can only speak to them about your concerns and offer them guidance, but you can’t force them to see things your way or to fear what you fear. It seems that your fear is more about what will happen to you in all of this and that is not something that you should be afraid of. Concentrate on being the best you can be. That is really all you can do. Lead by example and concentrate on who you are and who you want to be. Don’t get caught up in their business, their business will only effect you if you are part of it.
Cinderella, if you have reason to believe that your brother is purposely keeping your parents in the dark about this, and if your brother is an older teen (17+), you should probably not talk to your parents about this behind his back.
On the other hand, if you feel that he would listen to them, then it might just be a good idea. But you might be burning a bridge here, if you’re on good terms with your brother and friend and they feel betrayed when you tell your parents “behind their backs”….
Just something to consider…
Areivim Zeh L’Zeh means helping your brother not fall into this spiritual wasteland and proactively doing something to stop it from happening.
The last girl I dated, I met socially. And the main reason I wanted to date her was because of her wonderful personally, not because of her physical attractiveness. So it is wrong to say something across the board when it works for some people. But, in the OP’s brother’s case, it just seems to be for the fun of it without long-term thoughts in mind, which will either fizzle out or become more of a problem, which can be solved through different ways, depending on the situation.
bad bad bad. get a rov to talk to him. dont let it continue. he’ll thank you in the long run and marriage is the farthest thing from his mind. and if its not- its still wrong.
“i just found out that one of my best friends is involved with my brother. they have been texting and talking for quite a while and i dont know what to do.”
How certain are you that the information that you just found out is accurate?
“they dont think i know but i know”
Why do you think they dont know? Maybe they do know, but it doesnt bother them?
“my friend has had some guy problems before and i tried to help her but obviously… “
Guy problems?
Forget talking to your brother. At this point, he is not thinking rationally. Once bitten by the girl bug, guys (from age 14 and up) will make every excuse to justify what they are doing, regardless of the damage they may cause.
The posters that said to contact Rabbi Wallerstien are your best bet. If your friend will not / cannot meet with him in person, have her listen to the shuir about being shomer negiah (avail on Torahanywhere.com)
Noone with a teaspoon of brains will hear that shiur and remain unchanged. Its one of the best shiurim I’ve ever heard on the topic, and applies to men and women alike
correction:- toranytime.com is the website that has his shiurim
or you can just type Rabbi wallerstien in google and you will be right by his shiurim then just scroll down to the topic of shomer negia. Download it and have him listen to it. It will definitely be a life changing expirience for him.
I really hope and pray that all these lost soals will find their place… It’s really sad, they say that there are more kids going off the derech these days, more than any other time in history, its due to the technology. as the tech goes higher yiddishe neshomos stoop lower and lower!!!
I think alot of kids from bt parents go off mainly ’cause they don’t feel welcome in the frum society. They don’t feel that they belong.. they think that if they go off the derech they will be more accepted in society. But they are wrong. Kids that go off don’t belong there and they certainly take one big step away from becoming accepted into the frum society. In every circle, even the nonjewish circles, social habbits are naturally the same. If you cant win here you certainly won’t win there. so you might as well follow the torah and love hashem. they say but really truely loving hashem and serving him with your full heart and soal, everything will go right for you. Hashem put you into this world and if you internalise the fact that noone can help or harm you other than hashem then you will fall away from the resentment of other people once you do that you will start actuall seeing the good in others, and you will start to like them once you truly love them they will love you back and you won’t feel the need to want to escape your familiar society that you grew up in…
personally I can tell when people go off the derech , or if they were just simply raised that way, just like you can tell who the Bt’s are… if you know what i’m saying. Tell this to him and have him watch the shiur and he will definitely change for the good. kids that are burnt don’t see past thier noses, so you have to tell him whats beyond the nose!!!
Good luck and I really hope he changes is ways!!! It will be better for him in the long run, and he will live a much happier life. He may think that the grass is greener over there however in actual fact it most definitely is not.
Areivim Zeh L’Zeh means helping your brother not fall into this spiritual wasteland and proactively doing something to stop it from happening.
I think thats what she was trying to do by starting this thread.
mytake
Member
Cinderella, if you have reason to believe that your brother is purposely keeping your parents in the dark about this, and if your brother is an older teen (17+), you should probably not talk to your parents about this behind his back.
On the other hand, if you feel that he would listen to them, then it might just be a good idea. But you might be burning a bridge here, if you’re on good terms with your brother and friend and they feel betrayed when you tell your parents “behind their backs”….
Just something to consider…
*like*
For the shiur mentioned above, go to TorahAnytime.com/ click on videos/ Rabbi Wallerstein/ the Magic Touch from 6/12/2008 (almost at the bottom of the page)
Hatzlacha
theyre not bts. what shaychis
I just read your post and Im almost crying for you. You sound like such a wonderful caring sister and friend. Do you know how they met? Was it through you? I think you should have your brother speak to someone (rabbi wallerstein as mentioned above). I dont think you should talk to your friend- your brother will prob listen to you more than your friend. If your parents are not going to help then dont involve them- ur brother will just feel like you are trying to embarrass him and get him in trouble with your parents.
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