January 21, 2021 12:02 am at 12:02 am #1940965
Imagine how the world might have been different had a President condemned nativism a century ago and acted on that. The Johnson Reed immigration law would not have happened and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Jews could have made it to America and escaped the Shoah.January 21, 2021 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1940984
Imagine if the Brits would have listned to Churchill instead of the “peace in our time” of Chamberlin and destoyed Germany when they broke their Treaty and there would have never been a Shoah.
Hitler talking for years about what he planned to do while building up his arsenal is kinda similar to the Iranians talking for years about what they want to do while they build up their arsenal isn’t it?
We even have the Iranian agreement to match the Chamberlin’s accords with Hitler ym”s and we have the uncouth Trump to match Churchill.January 21, 2021 10:25 am at 10:25 am #1941102smerelParticipant
Imagine how different the world would be if the Democrats running the United States at the time of the holocaust would have been willing to give TEMPORARY asylum to the Jews in Europe as was being requested at the time.
Imagine how different the world would be if it was the frum Jews who had Roosevelts ear during the holocausts rather then secular liberal ones.
Imagine how different the world would be if The New York Times as a Jewish owned liberal and secular paper didn’t try to hide and downplay the holocaust while it was going on.
etc.January 21, 2021 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #1941148hujuParticipant
To smerel, re his/her New York Times comment: The Sulzberger family is not Jewish today, and I am not sure whether they were Jewish in the 1940’s. (Actually, once a Jew, always a Jew; conversion does not change one’s soul.)
And there were radically more newspapers in the US in the 1940’s, many of them prestigious, and none of them printed more news about the Holocaust than the New York Times. Even as late as 1944, there were rabbis in Europe who did not encourage emigration from Europe because they did not understand the scope of Germany’s plans for extermination of the Jews of Europe. Roosevelt could/should have done better by the Jews, but the blame is his alone.January 21, 2021 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1941182
Imagine how different would have been if Trump spoke out clearly against white supremacist as Biden did and not encorage them by making them think tbat he is their advocate.January 21, 2021 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #1941191
“if the Democrats running the United States at the time of the holocaust would have been willing to give TEMPORARY asylum”
That would have been illegal because of the Johnson Reed Act that I mentioned in the opening post. The Johnson Reed Act was passed by a Republican Congress and signed into law by Calvin Coolidge, a Republican. There was no such thing as asylum under that law, even termporary.January 21, 2021 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1941200
“Imagine if the Brits would have listned to Churchill instead of the “peace in our time” of Chamberlin and destoyed Germany when they broke their Treaty ”
Churchill was not the Prime Minister when Hitler broke the Treaty. Ramsay MacDonald was PM when Germany began rearming. MacDonald was a pacifist, and essentially endorsed Hitler’s actions by having the UK sign a naval agreement with the Third Reich allowing it to increase its navy. MacDonald was also in failing heallth, and like Donald Trump had a tenuous grasp of reality. Stanley Baldwin, MacDonald’s successor, was almost as bad in terms of appeasement of Hitler, doing nothing when Hitler militarized the Rhineland, but at least Baldwin started a rearmament program and got the Nazi sympathizer King to abdicate. Note that Churchill notoriously oposed the forced abdication! Note also that Clement Attlee opposed rearmament until 1937, doing a 180 degree reversal then and from then on bitterly opposing Chamberlain’s appeasement, especially the Munich Agreement.January 21, 2021 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #1941275
“the Iranian agreement to match the Chamberlin’s accords with Hitler ym”s and we have the uncouth Trump to match Churchill”
Actually the comparison is the opposite. The Iran agreement ended Iran’s nuclear program, and Iran gave up its highly enriched uranium. The uncouth Trump broke the agreement and now Iran is off to the races again, enriching like crazy.January 21, 2021 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #1941296smerelParticipant
<i>That would have been illegal because of the Johnson Reed Act that I mentioned in the opening post. The Johnson Reed Act was passed by a Republican Congress and signed into law by Calvin Coolidge, a Republican. There was no such thing as asylum under that law, even termporary.</i>
The people who passed the Johnson Reed Act had no idea the holocausts would take place decades later. Roosevelt and his fellow Democrats Democrats had the political capital and ability to easily make an amendment allowing temporary asylum while the holocausts was going on. They did even try.
Put the blame where it belongs.January 21, 2021 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #1941321ParticipantParticipant
imagine if there weren’t annoying ads that take over the page every time you open a topic or article here.January 21, 2021 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #1941320
First off it is an undisputed lie that the Iranian agreement “ended” Irans nuclear program.
At best it only put it off for ten years.
As to the fact Churchill was not Prime Minister at the time
He was very vocal and adamant about his positions and was lambasted by “profesionalls’ amd the “mainstream” as “extremist” and a War mongerer.
Any basic understanding of American politics at the outset of WW2 includes the fact that FDR and the Democrats had total power and were able to do what they wanted.
But then again leave it to the Dems
Mess Up and blame it on a law passed decades before.
And I say mess up charitably, by any honest accounts FDR deliberatley refused to aid the Jews and the NY Times deliberatley covered up what was going on)January 21, 2021 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1941343jewishcommonsenseParticipant
some ppl here have some real hairbrained opinions….. do you seriously think Iran wasn’t producing any nuclear while in agreement w Obama?!!!?! they pocketed the treats and continued producing their deadly stuff secretly!January 21, 2021 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1941344jewishcommonsenseParticipant
why was it so hard for FDR to sign an executive order allowing entry to the jews if Biden signed loads of orders in one day? because he was a democRAT, a good for nothingJanuary 22, 2021 11:33 am at 11:33 am #1941445👑RebYidd23Participant
Biden had not yet signed anything.January 22, 2021 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1941477
I miss your jewish common sense as Jews were never forbidden now to come here, so they don’t need an executive order to be allowed.January 22, 2021 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #1941498
RE -“why was it so hard for FDR to sign an executive order allowing entry to the jews if Biden signed loads of orders in one day? because he was a democRAT, a good for nothing”
You obviously didn’t begin to understand his comment.
-“I miss your jewish common sense as Jews were never forbidden now to come here, so they don’t need an executive order to be allowed.”
You mister know nothing about American History, probably because you’re a foreigner.
FDR turned back ships fleeing Nazi Europe – back to their Death!January 23, 2021 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #1941621
Biden took out the bust of Winston Churchill.
I think a bust of the Ayatollah would be more appropriate. Certainly Neville ChamberlainJanuary 23, 2021 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #1941620
You choose nice words and 60 cookies from Professor Jill for 25,000 troops and turn a blind eye to:
The erasure of girl’s sports by executive order
Pending war in Syria (2 days in and they’re already beating the war drums)
The loss of 71,000 jobs and energy independence by Executive Order
An Executive Order alowing the Chinese Communist Party to be involved in the US power grid
National guardsmen left out in the cold (Trump hotel did take them in)
And whatever goodies he’ll throw our way.
This is the same guy that walks past the Marines and says “salute the Marines,” as he was told b his earpiece, without actually saluting the Marines.
We’re doomed.January 23, 2021 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #1941647GadolhadorahParticipant
Dov: “WE’RE” not doomed. Just you. I won’t even bother correcting the misstatements in seven of the eight assertions in your post. You are entitled to your opinions, but perhaps find a better source of information unless your intention was to try and elicit some reaction.January 23, 2021 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #1941654
Everything I wrote is true.
Mysteriously, there’s an ISIS bombing in Baghdad for the first time since 2018? Come on.
We’re heading for war. Energy independence was killed in the name of environmentalism. And the transgender Executive Order allows any man into girls’ sports, thus killing that opportunity for young women, basically.
You are not “gadolhadorah.” You are a misguided
EditedJanuary 24, 2021 7:28 am at 7:28 am #1941683
“why was it so hard for FDR to sign an executive order allowing entry to the jews ”
Because executive orders can’t override statutory law. The President is not a dictator. Under the 1924 Johnson Reed immigration law, anyone entering the United States needed a visa signed by a US consular officer in that person’s home country and for every country in the Eastern Hemisphere, there were strict quotas that could not be exceeded for any reason. There was no such thing as refugee status.
Germany had a decent quota of just over 50,000, which is why most German Jews who tried to get out were able to. Great Britain and Ireland had quotas of around 34,000 and 28,000, respectively, but Jews in those countries were not at risk as the fascists movements in those countries had little popular support.
But Poland’s quota was about 6,000. France’s was about 4,000, as was Italy’s. Czechoslovakia’s was about 3,000. Romania’s was about 600, Hungary’s about 500. Greece’s quota was 100. You can do the math. FDR had no authority to change any of this.
Interestingly there was no quota at all from anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. The borders with Mexico and Canada were essentially open. And there was huge immigration to the US of Spanish and French speakers. The US survived.January 24, 2021 7:40 am at 7:40 am #1941684
“had the political capital and ability to easily make an amendment allowing temporary asylum”
No they didn’t. They couldn’t even let any Chinese people in at all, and the Chinese people were experiencing an even worse holocaust than Jews did starting in 1937. (Estimates of the number of Chinese dead are as high as fifty million.) Such was the racism and nativism that was in the US then.
Put the blame where it belongs: Calvin Coolidge and the Republicans.January 24, 2021 7:41 am at 7:41 am #1941686
“At best it only put it off for ten years.”
Wrong. 15 years.
And by killing the agreement, Iran’s program is back at full speed. Put blame where it belongs.January 24, 2021 7:42 am at 7:42 am #1941687
“Any basic understanding of American politics at the outset of WW2 includes the fact that FDR and the Democrats had total power and were able to do what they wanted.”
That is another false statement. Until 1937, the conservative dominated Supreme Court overturned one action after another by FDR and Congress. And while FDR mostly got his way with Congress during his first term on domestic policy, that was not the case in his second or third term as Democrats started revolting in 1937. While the Republican Party was almost entirely nativist and isolationist (in particular both Hoover and Landon), there were a lot of nativists and isolationists in the Democratic Party as well. Charles Lindbergh, probably a Nazi himself, was a national hero and opposed FDR at every step.January 24, 2021 7:42 am at 7:42 am #1941688
“Energy independence was killed in the name of environmentalism.”
Actually the single major “environmental” action by Biden so far has been to cancel the Keystone XL Pipeline which means fewer oil imports.
It is amazing how the Trump Cult loves to lie.January 24, 2021 7:43 am at 7:43 am #1941689
“You mister know nothing about American History, probably because you’re a foreigner.”
I’m actually 12th generation American.
“FDR turned back ships fleeing Nazi Europe”
Correct. Under the law he could not let a single person without a valid visa disembark.
It is amazing how members of the Trump Cult who want to put in place similar draconian policies restricting immigration today think that the law should have been violated in 1940.January 24, 2021 7:44 am at 7:44 am #1941691
DR -“We’re heading for war”
What’s wrong with that?
Secondly, since he’ll let all Muslims in – there will be Terrorist attacks here, just like good Ole Obama times!
And they won’t be able to blame the Right Wing Terrorists, but they might try to.January 24, 2021 7:45 am at 7:45 am #1941692
“Pending war in Syria (2 days in and they’re already beating the war drums)”
Funny how the Trump Cult claims to want to oppose Iran yet they oppose the reversal of the pro-Iran policies of Trump, which basically left Iraq and Syria open to Iranian hegemony.
“The loss of 71,000 jobs and energy independence by Executive Order”
This shows the stupidity of the Trump cult; as I said in another comment the cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline will reduce US oil imports.
“An Executive Order alowing the Chinese Communist Party to be involved in the US power grid”
There was no such EO. I read the one that is claimed to do that and it doesn’t.
“National guardsmen left out in the cold”
That wasn’t Biden that was the head of the Capitol Police. He has no authority over the Capitol Police. The order was reversed within hours and they were back in the Capitol itself.
“Trump hotel did take them in”
As did other hotels.January 24, 2021 10:48 am at 10:48 am #1941779
‘Correct. Under the law he could not let a single person without a valid visa disembark.’
1. So why did he turn down the Gedolim without giving a reason?
2. And how can Biden allow Mexicans to become citizens without visas?
I am no expert in this topic, so please clarify.
‘This shows the stupidity of the Trump cult; as I said in another comment the cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline will reduce US oil imports.’
You also said that it was a bad decision:January 24, 2021 11:15 am at 11:15 am #1941814
‘Funny how the Trump Cult claims to want to oppose Iran yet they oppose the reversal of the pro-Iran policies of Trump, which basically left Iraq and Syria open to Iranian hegemony.’
Before you call Trump pro-Iran, explain why John Ratcliffe of the DNI stated that Iran was interfering in the election IN BEHALF OF JOE BIDEN.
As a side note, it’s hard to take you seriously if you need to include ‘stupid’ and ‘Trump cult’ in every statement.January 24, 2021 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1941887
Oh Charlie, -“I’m actually 12th generation American.”
My post was to Reb Eliezer, not to you.
Oh – now you’re saying you are Reb Eliezer.
So why do you need More than One SN?!?
Is it because you want to Trick people?!?January 24, 2021 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #1941914
Regarding FDR’s conduct during WW2
“The extermination of European Jewry began when the German army invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941. The Nazis attempted to keep the Holocaust a secret, but in August 1942, Dr. Gerhart Riegner, the representative of the World Jewish Congress in Geneva, Switzerland, learned what was going on from a German source. Riegner asked American diplomats in Switzerland to inform Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, one of America’s most prominent Jewish leaders, of the mass murder plan. But the State Department, characteristically insensitive and influenced by anti-Semitism, decided not to inform Wise
The rabbi nevertheless learned of Riegner’s terrible message from Jewish leaders in Great Britain. He immediately approached Under Secretary of State Sumner Welles, who asked Wise to keep the information confidential until the government had time to verify it. Wise agreed and it was not until November 1942 that Welles authorized the release of Riegner’s message.”
The above was the FDR administrationJanuary 24, 2021 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #1941919
From the museam of Tolerance
“What was the response of the Allies to the persecution of the Jews? Could they have done anything to help?
The response of the Allies to the persecution and destruction of European Jewry was inadequate. Only in January 1944 was an agency, the War Refugee Board, established for the express purpose of saving the victims of Nazi persecution. Prior to that date, little action was taken. On December 17, 1942, the Allies issued a condemnation of Nazi atrocities against the Jews, but this was the only such declaration made prior to 1944.
Moreover, no attempt was made to call upon the local population in Europe to refrain from assisting the Nazis in their systematic murder of the Jews. Even following the establishment of the War Refugee Board and the initiation of various rescue efforts, the Allies refused to bomb the death camp of Auschwitz and/or the railway lines leading to that camp, despite the fact that Allied bombers were at that time engaged in bombing factories very close to the camp and were well aware of its existence and function.
Other practical measures which were not taken concerned the refugee problem. Tens of thousands of Jews sought to enter the United States, but they were barred from doing so by the stringent American immigration policy. Even the relatively small quotas of visas which existed were often not filled, although the number of applicants was usually many times the number of available places. Conferences held in Evian, France (1938) and Bermuda (1943) to solve the refugee problem did not contribute to a solution. At the former, the countries invited by the United States and Great Britain were told that no country would be asked to change its immigration laws. Moreover, the British agreed to participate only if Palestine were not considered. At Bermuda, the delegates did not deal with the fate of those still in Nazi hands, but rather with those who had already escaped to neutral lands. Practical measures which could have aided in the rescue of Jews included the following:
• Permission for temporary admission of refugees
• Relaxation of stringent entry requirements
• Frequent and unequivocal warnings to Germany and local populations all over Europe that those participating in the annihilation of Jews would be held strictly accountable
• Bombing the death camp at Auschwitz”
All under FDRJanuary 24, 2021 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1941918
In 1940, members of the President’s Advisory Committee on Political Refugees argued with the State Department to simplify immigration procedures for refugees. This effort was also defeated. Refugees had an ally in First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt, who supported liberalizing immigration laws, wrote about the refugee crisis in her weekly newspaper column, and worked behind the scenes to effect change. Mrs. Roosevelt’s interventions successfully helped some individual refugees, particularly artists and intellectuals, but she was not able to shift national policies. Those in power in the State Department insisted on enforcing the nation’s immigration laws as strictly as possible. Breckinridge Long, the State Department officer responsible for issuing visas, was deeply antisemitic. He was determined to limit immigration and used the State Department’s power to create a number of barriers that made it almost impossible for refugees to seek asylum in the United States. For example, the application form for US visas was eight feet long and printed in small type. Long believed that he was “the first line of defense” against those who would “make America vulnerable to enemies for the sake of humanitarianism.” Long and his colleagues at the State Department went so far as to turn away a group of Jewish refugees aboard the St. Louis in May 1939 when the German ocean liner sought to dock in Florida after the refugees were denied entry to Cuba. Following their deportation back to Europe, many of these people perished in the Holocaust”
Again the FDR administrationJanuary 24, 2021 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1941922
Finally specifically regarding the ST Louis from sterling, unitedstateshistory
“President Roosevelt could have issued an executive order to admit the St. Louis refugees, but this general hostility to immigrants, the gains of isolationist Republicans in the Congressional elections of 1938, and Roosevelt’s consideration of running for an unprecedented third term as president were among the political considerations that militated against taking this extraordinary step in an unpopular cause”
So FDR could have issued an executive order based in humanitarian concerns and for political reasons chose not to.January 24, 2021 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #1941934
Further sources summing up FDR’s actions during WW2
“While Roosevelt condemned the actions of the Nazis and willingly amended
the rules for foreigners currently in the United States, he did not act to change the
immigration laws and quotas. Even after expressing such disdain at the actions by the
Nazis on Kristallnacht, Roosevelt refused to consider allowing more refugees to enter
the country. When asked about this policy, FDR responded, “That is not in
contemplation; we have the quota system.”110
In terms of relieving the refugee crisis in the most significant manner, it would
seem as if the easiest solution would have been to open up the doors of the United
States. Many diplomats agreed that amending the immigration laws would be the most
108 Statement by the President, November 15, 1938. From the Roosevelt Library. The
FDR Papers, OF3186: Political Refugees, June-December 1938.
109 Press conference, November 18, 1938, Franklin Roosevelt and Foreign Affairs,
Vol. 12, 132-134, qtd. in Breitman et al., Refugees and Rescue, 151.
110 “Franklin D. Roosevelt and Foreign Affairs” ed. Donald B. Schewe, Second
Series, January 1937-August 1939 (New York: Clearwater, 1979), Vol. 12, 83-86.
beneficial solution to the crisis. Norman Bentwich, a British diplomat, wrote to James
McDonald and expressed his views of the refugee situation. He stated, “the main effort
during the next period should be to increase the possibilities of emigration to the
American continent, and particularly, of course, to the U.S.A., if there is any chance of
getting some relaxation of the quota rules.”111 Increasing the immigration quotas
would have allowed thousands of desperate Jews to exit Germany and Austria for
refuge in the United States.
However, for the reasons of nativism and public opinion against the action,
that did not occur. Roosevelt described to Myron Taylor, “this Government is already
accepting involuntary emigrants to the fullest extend permitted by law. I do not
believe it either desirable or practicable to recommend any change in the quota
provisions of our immigration laws. We are prepared, nevertheless, to make any other
contribution which may be in our power to make.”112 FDR did not even consider
increasing the quotas to be a possible solution to the refugee crisis.”
The above was excepted from a thesis submitted to University of Delaware in 2016.
To sum it up FDR made no effort at all to lift immigration quotas and specifically stated he would not do so.January 24, 2021 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #1941937
Furthermore from JHVonline.com
“In his 1984 follow-up book, “The Abandonment of the Jews,” Wyman documented how after Roosevelt’s administration authenticated information that the Nazis were systematically exterminating European Jewry, President Roosevelt did nothing to allow Jewish refugees to enter the U.S.
What’s worse, Roosevelt’s policies succeeded in “piling on extra requirements and bureaucratic obstacles in order to disqualify Jewish refugees who were seeking admission to the United States,” according to Rafael Medoff. In 1933, the year Hitler took power, the existing U.S. quota system permitted 25,957 German citizens to immigrate to the U.S. each year. An unsympathetic White House, an anti-Semitic State Department, a Congress that was largely anti-immigration and a public that was strongly isolationist prior to 1941 all worked to ensure those existing quotas were not filled.
In his new book, “The Jews Should Keep Quiet” (Jewish Publication Society), Medoff documents that, after the Nazi genocidal policy was authenticated, Roosevelt not only refused to take any steps to rescue European Jews, but he continued to suppress legal immigration. During President Roosevelt’s 12 years in office, the German quota was filled in only one year; and, in most of those years, it was less than 25 percent filled.
Medoff’s book also sheds light on Roosevelt’s private prejudices towards Jews. It offers compelling evidence how Roosevelt manipulated Rabbi Stephen Wise and other Jewish leaders to acquiesce in his policy to obstruct opportunities to rescue European Jews”January 24, 2021 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #1941960
Ben Levi -“President Roosevelt did nothing to allow Jewish refugees to enter the U.S.”
That’s presenting the DemonCrat government in a somewhat in-between light.
In Truth they were Much Worse than That!
From the US Holocaust Museum Enclopedia:
During the 1930s and 1940s, the State Department tolerated nativist, xenophobic, and often antisemitic attitudes and actions. Breckinridge Long was often accused, both during his time at the State Department and in the years since the Holocaust, of being personally antisemitic and unsympathetic to European refugees, especially Jews fleeing Nazi persecution. Under his supervision, the Visa Division placed new restrictions on immigration due to national security concerns, even though it was clear that Jewish refugees in Europe were in serious danger.”January 24, 2021 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1941986
We need to start evaluating which converts we let in better. AFAIC, one cannot be a ger and subscribe to liberalism. Nor can one be a ger and subscribe to nonorthodox movements, such as Open orthodoxy, conservative, reform, etc.January 25, 2021 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1942418
‘one cannot be a ger and subscribe to liberalism.’
That is a terrible statement.
Since when do accept geirim based on their political views?
I am surprised YWN posted this comment.January 25, 2021 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1942435
Actually the way I understood that comment was simply that many of the most basic tenents of Liberalism run in direct contradiction to the Torah, as such one can not claim to be “mekabel ol mitzvos” accept the Yoke of Mitzvos yet beleive in an ideology that completley contradicts it.January 26, 2021 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #1942765
However Modern day Liberalism is of the view that it is immoral to hold any beleifs contrary to modern day liberal thought and the moral system espoused by Modern Day liberal thought must be enforced upon individuals becuase the federal government must not just ensure that society funcions, rather it must ensure society is moral.
So if the Federal Government decides that the definition of marriage in the Torah is immoral ch”v and the government now understands what the moral definition of marriage is then it must enforce everyone who wants to have any part in society to practice that definiton of marriage.
The above is but one example.
This has been correctly identified as a mortal threat to religous freedom in this country becuase it subjects the Moraal ethics of the Torah to the approval of the Federal Government.
If the Federal Government does not approve of the teachings of the Torah then one can be forced to publicly diavow them ch”v.January 26, 2021 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1942762
Again as i understand the practice of modern liberalism (as opposed to classic liberalism) vs conservitism.
The modern day conservative movement is predicaed on a basic belief of a “small federal government” that embraces a theory of “live and let live” the federal government is not required to accept or not accept you as long as I do nothing to activley impede or harm you. Similarly the federal government is not required to help or not help you as long as, again, it does not activley impede your success.
The basic role of federal government is simply to ensure that society as whole can function on a macro level and as such is relegated to the basic tasks that are need to ensure the protection and functioning of society as a whole on a macro level.
Example one is defense, the National defense requires a collective effort as such it falls into the realm of govermental affairs.
Basic infrastucture such as roads and bridges are again needed for society as whole to function as such it falls into the realm of federal government.
The application of this theory is basically that the federal government has a relativley small footprint in the average citizens life ensuring that they have an individual chance at success but not ensuring that success is going to happen.
As a social level it means that the indivudual community is allowed to function based on the moral values of that community.
In other words Quakers are left to construct their societies based upon their morals and beleifs and transmit them to their children. The government has nor role to play in it what so ever.
Muslims are the same way as are Christians and African Americans.
Modern day enlightened Greenich Village is the same way.
Now while I fundementally disagree with many of the basic principles and values that these individual communities espouse and implement, it really makes no difference because I have no right to dictate to any indivual which community they may join nor how that community should conduct themselves.
The benefit to me is that I am allowed to live in a Torah based community which is constructed to live based upon Torah values and transmit them to their children free of persecution.
This basic idea is why we Orthodox Jews have been able to live in the USA for years and practice our religous belefies freely and openly.
Even during say the 1930’s when anti-semitism in America was open and widespread, Shuls & Yeshivos functioned because a basic tenet of America was that you can keep me out of you country club but you can not stop me from opening mine.
You do what you want and I do what I want.January 28, 2021 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1943408
Biden says, silence is complicity, shtika kehodah.January 28, 2021 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1943518
The Torah is fundamentally incompatible with liberal ideology and “morals.”January 29, 2021 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1943549torahvaluesoverpartyParticipant
Well said Ben levi. As I’ve said previously, there is a clear correlation between orthodox Jews holding conservative views, while non-orthodox holding liberal views. Those few liberal orthodox Jews likely started out supporting democrats long before the woke mob arrived.February 1, 2021 11:04 am at 11:04 am #1944256
”Actually the way I understood that comment was simply that many of the most basic tenents of Liberalism run in direct contradiction to the Torah, as such one can not claim to be “mekabel ol mitzvos” accept the Yoke of Mitzvos yet beleive in an ideology that completley contradicts it.”
I agree that ‘many of the most basic tenents of Liberalism run in direct contradiction to the Torah’,
but can we, according to Halacha, reject a ger because of their ideology?February 2, 2021 9:44 am at 9:44 am #1944625☕️coffee addictParticipantFebruary 2, 2021 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #1944639
I am not a posek so I cannot speak specifics. However one of the main parts of being a ger includes an acceptance of the Ol Mitzvos, the Yoke of Mitzvos. That would seem to mean that if one expresses belief in an ideology that runs counter to the Ol Mitzvos he or she would be unable to become a Ger.
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