April 5, 2009 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #589655noitallmrParticipant
What will be your feelings at this great once in 28 years event???April 5, 2009 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #642240
How wonderful the Artscrollization of Judaism is. Also, if I see lightning and the sun, do I need to make two separate brachos? And if I am staring at the Ocean while seeing lightning, would I need three brachas?
And if Haley’s comet would somehow show up during a birkas hachama, would I need another bracha?April 5, 2009 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #642241shaatraMember
I hope it’ll be aweApril 5, 2009 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #642242aussieboyParticipant
I heard it might rain that day.April 5, 2009 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #642243NobodyMember
I remember the last occasion and it was such an awesome and uplifting experience hearing the brocha recited so loud and by so many.
However I am left in no doubt that 28 years later there will be many more people as communities in general have grown considerably.
I hope I will be around for the next one in Yerushalayim with Moshiach.April 5, 2009 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #642244hi100Member
if it rains or it’s cloudy- which is a big possibility-then you can’t say it. could you imagine that after all the hype about it?April 5, 2009 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #642245JaxMember
awe & inspirational i say! and i’m excited about it!April 5, 2009 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #642246kapustaParticipant
hi100, I think 28 years ago it was (I don’t know, I wasn’t around for it) if it was then, could you imagine what it would be like these days with the world the way it is?
(:therealkapusta:)April 5, 2009 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #642247hi100Member
i heard that in some places the whole community is getting together in a park and doing it together- now that’s nice(and inspiring)April 5, 2009 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #642248
ames, my point is that while it is indeed a great event, it is no more an event than any of those others. In fact, until around 200 years ago the bracha was not said. It’s nice, but there really is no need for the full out assault that we are seeing, especially since we now know the date is not correct.April 5, 2009 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #642250aussieboyParticipant
yossiea: You can only see Haley’s comet at night so thats not a problem.April 6, 2009 2:45 am at 2:45 am #642251oomisParticipant
I am B”EH going to the beach at 6:15 AM, to watch the sunrise, and then make the bracha.
I sincerely hope it is NOT rainy, as some have been saying. How ironic would that be? And could we make the bracha in that event, altogether?April 6, 2009 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #642254ChattyMember
If it rains you say the Bracha without Hashem’s name.
It’s a special day for Tefillah and Bakasha to Hashem!!!! Use the time wisely.April 6, 2009 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #642255yankdownunderMember
It is mamish awesome to be connected to yom Reviei the day in the Creation of the world when Hashem first mentioned about the Sun. More then that to be able to witness the juxtaposition of the Sun just as it was 5769 years ago is incredible beyond words.April 6, 2009 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #642256
If only it were accurate. But we know, and even knew then that a year is not 364.25 days. Shmuel was off by about 5-7 minutes. That’s what Birchat Hachama is now aproxcimately 3 weeks after the actual vernal equinox. But, that’s of lesser significance than masses of Jews joining togetgher to praise G-d is. If it serves to let us forget that which divides us for a little way and concntrate onf that which unites, us, it’s a worthwhile endeavor.April 6, 2009 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #642257
cantoresq: I like the thought that you mention, and the idea of trying to build unity out of any event, but I don’t think that is the purpose of this Bracha. We are recognizing that what the rest of the world thinks of as tevva (nature) is in fact nothing other than Hashem running the world. That the sun lines up in the way that it does because Hashem continuously makes it do that. Moreso, this bracha is said on no observable phenomena, so it can only be thought of as a complete recognition of the absence of tevva without Hashem.
As far as the accuracy of the calculation goes, we find that for matters of Halacha calculated by the general populace, approximations are preferrable to exactness. For calculations done by a Bais Din, such as aligning the Hebrew lunar calendar with the solar year, we use a more exact calculation (based on Rav Ada bar Ahava and not Shmuel, we have a 19 year cycle that includes 7 leap months). For other calculations, such as when to begin saying v’sain tal u’mattar we use Shmuel’s calculation (60 days after t’kufas Tishrei, which is not 60 days after the true equinox that happens in September).
ames: I think you should ignore yossiea, a poster from whom we never hear anything but venom. Let him vent on another site; or on this one, to deaf ears.April 6, 2009 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #642258
Every time I think of the crowds, kedusha, unity and Kiddush Hashem- I get the chills. This will be an awe-inspiring morning, no matter how you slice it. With rain, no rain, accuracy or not. It will be such a POWERFUL moment! Like Chatty said- let’s use the time wisely.April 6, 2009 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #642259David S.Member
anyone interested in dvar Torah on Birchas HaChama?
sure. post in in the D’Var Torah thread. YW Moderator-72April 6, 2009 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #642260
squeak, nasty!April 6, 2009 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #642261
Let me just add one more thought on exactness:
The sun lines up in the position that it was at Creation EVERY YEAR. Not every 28. The event that happens once in 28 years is that it lines up on a Tuesday night at sunset (when the sun was created – according to the shitta we follow). In Jerusalem. Yet, you say the bracha at 7 am on Wednesday morning in NYC. So much for exactness – you might give a thought to the time of day that you should say it (and based on the time zone of Jerusalem) at the same time you give thought to the day we select to say it.
If you do the calculation with exactness (and I call on our resident math experts to help out), Bircas Hachama would NEVER take place. In 5769 years the sun has never returned to the place of creation AT sunset on Tuesday evening in Jerusalem (although it returns every year at a different time and/or day of the week). So your choice is to never have bircas hachama or to calculate it imprecisely. So we follow Shmuel for this, whose calculations are easy enough that anyone can work them out (or at least, it is easy to find someone in any locality who can handle his calculations).April 6, 2009 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #642263
Squeak, we have a rare instance in which you and I can publically agree. (See what I mean by the unifying effect of Birchat Hachama?) Indeed Birchat Hachama is an opportunity proclaim that seemingly coincidental “non-events” like the alignment of the sun with other planets at a particualr point in the calendar are also guided by G-d. I was referring to the opinion of many poskim that this bracha is best said “b’rov am.”
As regards your assertion that Chazal used one set of calculations for calculations done by Beth Din and another for calculations done by the laity, please explain then why Hillel Hakatan [seemingly]relied on Shmuels Astronomy and not that of R. Ada b. Shmuel when formulating this calendar? Hillel compensated for the built in error by implmenting a thirteen month year seven times in a nineteen ear cycle. But we know that eventually even that compensation will cease to be effective. R. Ada’s calculations would have obviated the need for the leap year, and would not fall apart eventually.April 6, 2009 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #642264
For all those who reside in the Brooklyn/Flatbush community there will be a couple gatherings throughout flatbush that I know of
1) ON Ave K and Bedford-23rd the street will be blocked off by the NYPD from seven oclock until seven fourty-five. Birchas Hachama will IYH take place at seven ten sharp
There will be parking reserved for it.
2) IN Marine park there will be a gathering somewhere between seven and seven thirty.
(Parking reserved)April 6, 2009 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #642268
I need to add a small disclaimer. I’m not extremely well versed in astronomy, Jewish or otherwise. I’ve only began reading anything beyond the most basic material in preparation for Wednesday. My question to Squeak is based on what I’ve read thus far, but might not be accurate. I haven’t seen a source that says Hillel Hakatan relied on Shmuels 365.25 day year. I’m extrapolating that from other things I’ve read.April 6, 2009 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #642270kapustaParticipant
asdfghjk? Do we know you? your name sounds very familiar, maybe like qwertyuio?
*kapusta*April 6, 2009 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #642272
rabboisai take advantage of birchas hacham it is only once in twenty eight years and if you want a good understanding of it watch the oorah video on it, it is fantastic.April 6, 2009 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #642275
Squeak, no need to attack me. I was simply pointing out that saying the bracha is a fairly recent thing and that it’s for many people just a feel-good event like Amein parties.
As for the date, it is off by a few weeks since the date was calculated using the Julian calendar and halachically, the date on Wednesday will be March 25th (I might be off by a day or so).April 6, 2009 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #642280
cantoresq – the calendar of Hillel is indeed based on Rav Ada’s calculation that there are 235 lunar months in 19 solar years. Rav Ada’s calculation is not exact either, but overestimates a year by slightly more than 6 minutes (Rav Ada’s calculation is 365 days, 5 hours, 997 and 48/76 Chalakim).
asdfghjk: Argh, another imposter.April 7, 2009 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #642282
Squeak, I need to defer to you, as I’m not well enough read on the sbuject to comment further.April 7, 2009 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #642283mepalMember
ames: you could check out the oorah video which explains, that Hashem created the creations of the day at the first possible moment. Ie. Hashem didn’t wait till the middle of the day to create the creation of that particular day. Therefore, to my understanding, from 12:01 AM, (Tuesday night, early Wednesday morn) Hashem began the creation of the sun etc. Therefore we wait till Wednesday morning when the sun is in full view.
There is also being a gathering in the Dahill park at the corner of Dahill and 38th Street beginning at 7AM.April 7, 2009 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #642284
6:00 PM Tuesday evening (and I am not sure how exact their numbers are, unless they mean halachic 6:00PM) is Wednesday.
As for saying brachas on other stuff, that is one of my points. When Haley’s comet came around (a far rarer event) were there gatherings like this? And while squeak may argue, it is for the most part a modern day innovation. It’s one line in the Gemarah and barely mentioned in the Rishonim. People today are lacking in spirituality and they need something to grab on to. L’Havdil, I read that even secular, C and R Jews will be having something tomorrow, the reason is that there is no sacrifice on their part to do a once in 28 years ceremony.April 7, 2009 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #642285
ames, BTW, who said you can’t say a bracha on the beach? If you’re in awe, I would think you can say the bracha, and if you want to remove any doubt, just don’t visit for 30 days and then visit. There are so many wonderful ways to say this bracha, birkas hachama is just one of them.April 7, 2009 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #642286
ames: 6pm is an approximation. The sun was created at sunset on Tuesday evening (which is the exact beginning of Yom Revi’i, since there is no safek of bein hash’moshos to God). As I explained in my earlier posts, we use approximation in calculating this event because an exact calculation is overly complex.
The approximation is the Tanna, Shmuel’s. He said that a year is exactly 365 1/4 days. Therefore, the extra quarter day means that the year begins and ends first at 12 am, then 6 am, then 12 pm, then 6 pm.
Also, the sun was created (according to Shmuel’s shittah) at the vernal equinox. Roughly speaking, that means that there was exactly 12 hours of day and 12 hours of night at creation. So 6 pm is a reasonable time to call sunset, and 6 am was the first sunrise (and there was no DST).
yossiea: Jews didn’t gather for mass rock concerts 200 years ago either. If Jews can get together for that, they can get together for mitzvos too.April 7, 2009 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #642287
yossiea, if she ever drove on the belt parkway she already can’t.April 7, 2009 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #642288
i meant within 30 days.April 7, 2009 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #642289
B’h the weather stations are predicting that it is suppose to be sunny from 7 until 11.April 7, 2009 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #642290
I would like to bring up an interesting point.
Birchas Hachama is tuesday night, so we do it wednesday morning. This is all based in eretz yisroel. So this means that in eretz yisroel the sun was created tuesday night/wednesday. But we are in america and we are 7 hours behind isreal. So if israel the sun was in it’s original position at 6 pm then in america it is in its original position at 11 am on tuesday, so we in america should be doing it tuesday afternoon, [which is now.]April 7, 2009 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #642291an open bookParticipant
asdfghjk: who are you??April 7, 2009 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #642294BemusedParticipant
“but there really is no need for the full out assault that we are seeing”
yossiea, do you feel assaulted? I’m sorry about that.April 7, 2009 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #642297
BTW, there are shittos that you say the bracha based on Israel time, not local time.April 7, 2009 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #642298gavra_at_workParticipant
I like the idea of making a bracha on Halley’s Comet. Bezras Hashem we should have the Zechus to do so Berov Am (in 2061).
Is anyone aware of any other visible comets showing up in the area anytime soon? There should be a similar event scheduled.April 7, 2009 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #642300
bais yaakov of BP is opening their roof to the public for birchas hachama. I do not have the exact times, but they will have minyanim around 5:30am and again at 8:00am
so according to asdfghjkl (i miss typing your sn!! welcome back ;))- we should be saying it right about NOW… hmmmmApril 7, 2009 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #642301
areivimzehlazeh: I AM NOT ASSOCIATED IN ANY WAY WITH ASDFGHJKL!!!!!!!!!
We know. We also know you use the screenname “torahtziva”
We are not amusedApril 7, 2009 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #642305
torahtziva is my brother and NOT ME. PLEASE stop telling everyone that i have more than screen name I DONT.April 7, 2009 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #642308
Beis Medrash Gavoha is having a birchas hachama gathering- don’t have the timeApril 7, 2009 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #642310
GAW, you just missed one, in March there was a comet. And what made it extra, was that in the end of the month, you had three planets (I believe) all lined up vertically in the sky. I think the comet was visible during that time as well
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