February 17, 2021 10:47 am at 10:47 am #1949182
in a sign of the times, I noticed several Bitcoin ATMs in lower Manhattan on my first trip to NYC in nearly a year. Not sure if they are showing up in other parts of the city but perhaps the newly minted Reddit Millenial millionaires trading Gamestop at home in their PJs need quick access to fiat currency to purchase their Grande Mocha Latte Cappucinos (with cholov yisroel of course). Next thing you know, Tesla will be offering an special 10-seat electric minivan which as Elon Musk has just announced, you can purchase with BC.
P.S. If you had purchased BC about 2 months ago when we last head a bitcoin thread here in the CR, you would have doubled your money (while the 10-year Treasury Bill is paying 1.2 percent)February 17, 2021 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1949204
Bitcoin ATMs? You put in your debit card and it spits out bitcoins for you?February 17, 2021 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1949210
Bitcoin is a gambling mechanism, nothing more nothing less. Despite lofty goals of a decentralized currency that anyone with a computer and internet connection can use anonymously with no string attached, it’s become just a slot machine. Almost all Bitcoin holders are just investing, hoping to sell their BTC when the price goes up. The few actual uses of BTC as a currency are mostly limited to shady Dark Web drug and gun forums.
The ridiculous price volatility of BTC combined with the several hour transaction wait times make it nearly impossible to use as a normal currency.
Bitcoin isn’t mainstream, it’s just talked about more.February 17, 2021 11:48 am at 11:48 am #1949217
I believe you can only BUY Bitcoin at the ATMs. You can’t cash out.February 17, 2021 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1949220
Not really that different from a traditional ATM in that it facilitates transactions in BC. Major difference is that traditional ATMs allow you to withdraw/deposit cash whereas Bitcoin ATMs allow users to buy and sell BC using bitcoin wallets linked to one of several crypto exchanges. To buy BC (typically a fraction of a coin), you would insert cash into the ATM which would generates a QR code from your crypto wallet on your iphone which is scanned to receive the BC you have just purchased. Sales process is essentially reversed where you send BC to the exchange’s digital wallet (via the QR code provided by the ATM). Most of the newer ATMs spit out cash based on the real time price (less a small service charge). MAJOR CAVEAT: Don’t ever forget the passcode to your wallet…if so, your BC is lost until moishiach comes.February 17, 2021 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1949225
‘The few actual uses of BTC as a currency are mostly limited to shady Dark Web drug and gun forums’
That was true for most of BC’s history but changing rapidly.
Several large corporations aside from Tesla (e.g. Microstragy etc.) have announced they are holding BC and other coins in their Treasury as cash-equivalent). There are several publicly traded crypto ETFs. Others (Visa, Square, OverStock, PayPal etc.) have said they will transact in BC. Most important, several of the large investment banks have indicated they will be holding crypto in their proprietary trading accounts).
Mainstream. Clearly not yet but l ots of momentum in the past 2-3 months. However, as others have noted, you’d have to be ganz meshugah to put more than a very small percentage of your assets in BC or any other coins for now.February 17, 2021 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #1949228
Yseribus: How’s it much different than day trading or playing the Forex market?February 17, 2021 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #1949229akupermaParticipant
Just like Tulips (which are much nice to look at)February 17, 2021 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #1949230
Meno, ghadora: You can buy it online. Why would you need to go to an ATM?February 17, 2021 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1949238YtParticipant
“Next thing you know, Tesla will be offering an special 10-seat electric minivan which as Elon Musk has just announced, you can purchase with BC”
Are you saying that could happen, or it is happening?
If so that will be an extraordinary and stupid
loss for Tesla, as Bitcoin is going to be a massive fail!!February 17, 2021 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1949245
You can buy Bitcoin with cash at an ATM.February 17, 2021 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #1949263Reb EliezerParticipant
Currently bitcoin sells for $50,000.February 17, 2021 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1949268
Currently bitcoin sells for $50,000
Currently a gallon of milk sells for $3.89 at my local ShopRiteFebruary 17, 2021 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #1949274
Meno: All the first-generation ATMs were “buy-only” but about half of the Bitcoin ATMs in use now offer both buy/sell transactions. When you do a google search for “bitcoin ATM map” for the local area, there should be some type of filter at the bottom of the page which will show those that are buy only versus buy/sell. Depending on which ATM and crypto exchange you are using, some actually dispense cash real time while others have a lag and send you a QR code which you can later use to get your cash. Unfortunately, I expect it will be several years before there is any “standardization” and ability to use “out of network” bitcoin ATMs in the same way you can do today for ATMs not affiliated with your own bank’s network.February 17, 2021 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #1949275
“If so that will be an extraordinary and stupid
loss for Tesla, as Bitcoin is going to be a massive fail!!
If I recall correctly, nearly identical language was used as recently as several years ago by the majority of “experts’ with respect to Tesla itself. With all respect, I’d put my bitcoin on Musk to find a way of making crypto transactions a profitable venture for Tesla. As more of the big banks and institutional investors begin taking small crypto positions in their accounts, the volatility will gradually decline and hedging becomes more realistic. Again, other than the WinkleVoss twins of Facebook fame, no rational investor is going to put more than a very small portion of their holdings into any alternative currency. Enough said.February 17, 2021 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1949284akupermaParticipant
The Tulips played a major role in Netherlands going from being a major world power to a cute little neutral. It would be bad for Yidden if Bitcoin brings the end of America’s role as a great power.February 17, 2021 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #1949394
@ujm It’s not really all that different than stock betting (AKA options trading, day trading, Forex markets). Which is kind of my point. Bitcoin, despite the hype, isn’t being used as a currency. It’s being used as a betting mechanism whose sole value comes from the fact that people use it as a betting mechanism.
@gadolhadorah I’ve been hearing about “Cryptocurrencies on the rise” for the last ten years. I’ll believe it when I see it. Right now, despite your optimistic predictions and comments about Tesla and Microsoft, I don’t see it.February 17, 2021 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #1949410Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
MiDvar Sheker Tirhok? Just buy tulips.
The difference between bitcoin and tulip is anonymity that is being used by criminals and terrorists, and countries headed by criminals and terrorists, to go around financial monitoring.
Will participation of more mainstream players change that? bring some regulation? Or simply make it harder to find criminals among larger population? I did not research that.February 17, 2021 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1949404
Yserbius: Microsoft?? I never mentioned MS and don’t believe they have any current crypto holdings. They are heavily into the blockchain technology underlying crypto. Agree its not a “currency” YET given its volatility but is viewed by some as a “store of value” in the same way as gold and other precious metals (the latter, of course, having been around for several thousand years). In fact. a lot of the money chasing BC the past month or two has come from investors selling out of gold (down from near $2,000/oz to about $1700) and going into crypto.February 18, 2021 9:27 am at 9:27 am #1949669hujuParticipant
A respected economist (formerly of MIT and Princeton, now of CUNY, Nobel laureate) says he is skeptical of Bitcoin in part because its primary users (i.e., not investors or speculators) are people who want to hide their transactions, which means they are drug dealers, smugglers, tax cheats and others of marginal trustworthiness. Should a synagogue or Jewish charity accept or spend Bitcoin? Let’s hear from a Halachah maven.February 18, 2021 11:43 am at 11:43 am #1949700The Shady CharediParticipant
It’s pretty silly to give a financial system it’s be-all-and-end-all judgement based primarily on a false narrative like “its primary users are … drug dealers, smugglers and tax cheats”.
Besides for being silly, it’s also completely incorrect. The vast vast majority of its users are law-abiding, tax-declaring people. In fact, on the contrary, any institution you use to acquire, trade or recoup BTC require way more identification and regulation than almost all other financial resources. More so, the whole basis of blockchain is that every single transaction that occurs is traceable. Even the most complex mixing scams were all caught.
And more on the contrary, if your “respected economist” is troubled by some financial systems being used as a tool for anonymous laundering and shady deals, then he’ll have a real problem with… CASH – the number 1 choice of anonymous, underground, shady launderers, far more so than crypto by any metric (@Yserbius123).
While I’m at it, @akuperma , BTC bears ZERO resemblance to the Tulip Mania of 1637, and it’s poshut stupid to try to compare them.
Bitcoin ATMs have been around for years. Not sure about NY, but in other places you’ve been able transact in and cash out using them easily.
Also @Yserbius123 et al. BTC is primarily a currency. Not a betting mechanism, not an equity stock. And it is traded, invested in, AND SPENT as such. Any currency, and gold itself, only has value because there is general mass consensus that it does.
And depending how you spread and shade the graphs, it is not really any more volatile than many US stock market indices, and even quite a bit less so over most of the period of 2018, 2019, 2020.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, or won’t eventually fail. But the world needs one international, standardized, verifiable digitized currency. And BTC has laid the foundation for whatever that may be.February 18, 2021 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1949724
@the-shady-charedi I’m sorry but that’s just wrong. The value of BTC primarily comes from investors, not from its value as currency. Unlike cash which is accepted as legal tender, there are very very few places that accept BTC for payment. The long wait times, the fluctuating prices, and the general user unfriendliness of BTC are all major obstacles that prevent it from replacing the dollar any time soon. If I want to buy something for 20$, by the time my transaction of 0.00038449042 BTC gets entered in the ledger, the price could jump 20% causing me to spend an extra 5$.February 21, 2021 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #1950493hujuParticipant
To Shady Chareidi: Where did you get the information about the use of Bitcoin by people with nothing to hide?
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