September 18, 2019 11:53 am at 11:53 am #1787791
Asbyou probably know, the Navi says about bias Moshiach “b’ito achishena,” “in its time I will hurry it up.”
Say Chazal, if we are zoiche, it will be hurried up. If we are not zoiche, Moshiach will come at a preset date. If Moshiach comes hurried, we will be zoiche to nissim giluyim (overt miracles). If the geulah comes at the preset date, we will not be zoiche to nissim giluyim, and things will occur in a seeming natural manner.
Why do many Chareidi Rabbonim assume that the geulah will come achishena, with nissim giluyim. I am told that the Vayoel Moshe takes that position, but not why. I can’t learn the entire sefer. Can someone please explain this to me? (I am Chareidi.)September 18, 2019 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1787820HamakomParticipant
This is in light of their view that, with so many secular forces in Israel, there is no trajectory at this point for any natural progress. In fact, we are drifting further from the goal, but it is 11:59:58 on the “moshiach clock”. Therefore, because there is every indication that such a trend will continue, especially in light of the recent Israeli election, yet we know moshiach must come soon, the only way it can possibly happen at this point is by Divine Intervention.September 18, 2019 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1787823☕️coffee addictParticipant
Don’t you want to be considered זוכה?
I don’t understandSeptember 18, 2019 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1787974munkatchParticipant
“כימי צאתם מארץ מצרים אראנו נפלאות”
– מיכה פרק ז’ פסוק טוSeptember 19, 2019 7:51 am at 7:51 am #1788012rationalParticipant
All should stay away from topics that we are incapable of understanding. The proposed variations on moshiach, how, when, and under what conditions, are mind-boggling numerous, proving my point. Do mitzvos, live in israel, and be a good person. Let HKBH do the rest, He’s reliable.September 19, 2019 7:52 am at 7:52 am #1788034Grey matterParticipant
What indicates that it is 11:59:58 on the moshiach clock? When is 12:00September 19, 2019 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1788127
Tosfas in Rosh Hashanah says that the Satan gets confused when we blow extra because he thinks that it is shofar of Meshiach. Why would he think so? The Ksav Sofer explains that there can be two times when Meshiach can come one is the fixed time b’ito and another before the fixed time, achisheno. We do teshuva from fear by haviing a king acting like Haman when Meshiach comes in its designated time but if we do teshuva from love, we can accelerate his coming before the designated time, achisheno. Rashi explans there, Rosh Hashanah 15, that when we blow extra, we show our love for mitzvos to Hashem thereby bringing Meshiach, so the Satan gets confused thinking that this is the shofar of Meshiach.September 19, 2019 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1788215
When we are worthy, we will have geulas achishena, without our intervention, otherwise it comes slowly.September 19, 2019 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1788211
Moderator: The edit does not work. I corrected tume to time above and it still shows tume but when I want to edit it, it shows time. The edit is not being applied and the old work place is not refreshed.September 19, 2019 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #1788222
Moderator: I just noticed that the topic and the invidual edits are out of sync. The individual is correctly edited but not the topic.September 22, 2019 8:40 am at 8:40 am #1788571
I posted four responses here, yet none of them showed up.September 22, 2019 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1788548
coffee addict: Of course I want to be considered zoiche! But it must be all of Klal Yisrael who are zoiche in order for it to be achishena, and wanting doesn’t make it happen.September 22, 2019 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1788549
Hamakom: That being the case, the only possible way is for it to be b’ito. And that is a process that will happen slowly.September 22, 2019 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1788551
Reb Eliezer: I know. But why is the assumption that it will happen “achishena?”September 22, 2019 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1788550
munkatch: That is only one of the two ways that the posuk says it can happen. Again, Chazal say clearly that it can happen with nissim giluyim, if it happens “achishenah.” But if it happens “b’ito,” that posuk in Michah will not happen.September 22, 2019 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #1788590
The question is as by the meraglim, will the yeshuah come bidei odom or bidei shomayim without any human intervention? If we are worthy, gualas achishena, the yeshuah would be strictly min hashomayim otherwise we have to start building the bais hamikdash and the one of fire will come on top of it as is we say in nachem sorrunding it. What? The one we build.September 25, 2019 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #1789776
I can guarantee that we will not be zoicheh to nissim giluyim or achishenah. I look around, and the only way I see that the entire Klal Yisrael will all be zoicheh is if it chas v’sholom happens like in Mitzrayim, if most Yiddin are niftar min ha’olam, chas v’sholom. Otherwise, I don’t see it happening. I think Hashem will be mirachem on Klal Yisrael, and bring the geulah slowly, being mikarev everyone to the Emes.September 26, 2019 4:13 am at 4:13 am #1789801Avi KParticipant
Some people want to tell Hashem how to bring about the Geula.September 26, 2019 11:06 am at 11:06 am #1789842
Oh please, I’m just predicting.
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