September 16, 2008 1:05 am at 1:05 am #588233smartgalMember
Its a true shame that in Lakewood, city of Torah , the rosh yeshivas are being ignored by school administrators who do what they want without consulting Daas Torah whatsoever ( not even other Rabbanim , besides the Rosh Hayeshivas).
Unfortunately, there are parents that are very proud that their children are “privileged” to get accepted to the school that is known to reject a lot of other children . It is nothing to be proud of , especially when it comes at the expense of pure innocent children being humiliated and heart broken for trying to obtain a sweet taste of Torah . Klal Yisrael has yet to ever face such a detrimental crisis. And in case you wonder what is the end result of these so called “privileged” children who get “accepted” should one ask Hagaon Rav Avram Yehoshua Soloveitchik he would surely tell you that his best Talmidim are NOT from these “elite” schools but rather from schools that are open to every sincere Jewish child. (This can not be compared to the small acceptance of yeshivas like Brisk which deals with 20 yr old bochurim & is a whole different situation)
On the other hand, should you speak to Rabbanim who deal with Kids @ risk they will tell you that these ‘privileged’ schools have a much bigger percentage rate of problems than other schools.
The fact is simple . Klal Yisrael’s existence and hatzlacha is and has always been to listen to Daas Torah whether we understand it or not , its my understanding that most if not all other mainstream Rosh Yeshivas are in line with the Lakewood Rosh Hayeshivas and its time for the rest of Klal Yisrael to join in and show Kovod Hatorah & support the Rabbanim & Rosh Hayeshivas, and knock all those who defy them and are mevazeh them whether directly or indirectly -no matter if one is a kollel yungerman sitting in BMG or working behind the counter in a pizza shop or anyone in between , let us get up & show Kovod HaTorah & put an end to this school crisis, and with this zechus may we be zoche to be Zakai Badin.September 16, 2008 3:12 am at 3:12 am #622111chaya1Participant
why are the parents who are affected by these administartors join forces with the Rabbanim in Lakewood and publicize all those that defy Daas Torah. If they defy Rabbanim in this regard they also become suspect in other aspects of Halacha whether in the schools or their private life. If an administartor does not listen to Daas Torah regarding the chinuch of our children how can he be trusted with the Kaqshrus of what he feeds them. The Finkel story happened not to long ago and he even gave a shior on the Daf.September 16, 2008 3:42 am at 3:42 am #622112
ir hatorah kimi nu hissoriru nu hisyatzvu nu… let us unite once and for all le’man kvod hatorah/shomaim and set example for the rest of klall yisroel.
ein haolam miskaim elo bishvil hevel pihem shel tinokos shel bais robon let the children learn torah, not cry at home with their humiliated parents.
PS i think the original post should be posted in every bais medresh (leanias dati).September 16, 2008 4:40 am at 4:40 am #622113
is it ta’ke true that these schools produce a lot of kids at risk- Hashem yerachaim al amo-it seems that these kids start of at the “chilrens Brisk” but L’O end up in the “streets”, vs. the “rejects” who start off in the “streets” and end up in “Brisk”.September 16, 2008 10:17 am at 10:17 am #622114
what are you talking about? Lakewood schools closed until each girl was placed, according to the directions of the rabbonim there! You guy posting above, why won’t you try running a school for even one day and try to do a better job. It’s elul and you should think a little before you write stuff about school administrators, why won’t you put your money where your mouth is and write big checks to these schools who are trying their best with such limited funds. Or start a school yourselves, see how easy it is.September 16, 2008 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #622115Pashuteh YidMember
Torah is nimshelah kamayim. It flows to the lowest places. Anybody who thinks I am better because I got into an “elite” school, is almost guaranteed that the Torah won’t even penetrate one iota into him. It doesn’t matter at what age.September 17, 2008 2:57 am at 2:57 am #622116chaya1Participant
To Shindy Please note that the situation that you are referring to where the schools did not open until the girls were taken in refers to the high school administrators. They indeed did listen. It is the elementary school girls that HAVE NOT BEEN PLACED and it is their administarators who are defying Daas Torah.
As far as running a school is concerned it has to be done with the consent of Daas Torah and not as it is a private dictatorship. If one can’t take direction then get out and let someone more responsible do the job.We have capable Askanim who can do as good or better job as being done now, but in addition it will be with the respect and consultation of Daas Torah.September 17, 2008 4:49 am at 4:49 am #622118
ATTN CHOCHMAI CHELEM; the focus here is limited to the very few who defy and are mevaze daas torah-and yes we must consult daas torah when dealing with yiddishe ne’shomos.
ps sorry for the sharfkeit but men darf mocha zein lchvod hatorah v’lomdeihu!September 17, 2008 5:04 am at 5:04 am #622119bein_hasdorimParticipant
torahis1: you know what she means! & if daas torah likes Pizza,
mac & cheese, & steak, I don’t mind them picking the menu,
however the sad fact is that there are administrators out there
no names of course who are defying daas torah & mentschlichkeit
& common sense, for whatever their reason, & we can’t turn a blind eye
when the ones who are suffering, the kinderlach can’t even defend themselves!
& I don’t want to hear replies from the ignorant ones
who dont know the real facts!!!!September 17, 2008 5:41 am at 5:41 am #622120Bentzy18Participant
Shindy, yes it is Elul and I wonder how a lot of administrators are able to face the new year after the pain that was inflicted on many girls in the community. Yes they listened and closed schools but this was only after a long summer of rejections and refusals. The fact that most of us don’t run a school is irrelevant. They took on the responsibility when they accepted their positions and to cause girls to languish in uncertainty to only wonder if they will go to school locally or not is just plain wrong. Before you start saying it was because too many girls applied to one, school that is false. Yes many did, and somehow all the girls who did that found a school when they reopened the registration. However, when the dust settled there were still many who were more than happy to go to any school, still not accepted until the last possible moment due to the intervention of many Rabbonim, affluent individuals, and aggressive elementary principals. This was and continues to be a case of politics where no school wants to be the one to accept the girl who doesn’t come from the perfect “Lakewood” home.September 17, 2008 11:12 am at 11:12 am #622121
Every day I am getting at least ten envelopes asking for tzaddakah. We live in very hard financial times. The schools are having a very hard time paying their bills and teachers. If the community would do more to support their school then maybe they could expand their schools and start new ones. Instead of asking the school administrater to accept so and so’s child, how about the Rabbonim doing major fund raising for these schools? You can’t tell people pru u’ rivu and then not accept their kids into school.September 17, 2008 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #622122SJSinNYCMember
If the schools are having so many problems with money, why dont they ask for more tuition? If you cant afford tuition and one of the parents is not working, make them get a job.
Fundraising is NOT the answer to everything! I understand that many of the men in Lakewood are learning and kol hakavod to them, but when the community is having trouble with supporting the schools, its time to get a job.
My husband and I are already saving tuition money for our 7 month old son because we see the economic times and how hard things are. Our little bit of savings is going towards that.September 17, 2008 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #622123gavra_at_workParticipant
Perhaps the administrator should offer a space contingent on enough tuition being raised to cover expenses?
On second thought, why doesn’t s/he do that for the entire school? Why should the rabbonim raise money and not the parents who need it?
smartgal is just pointing out that before telling ANY child “no, you are not allowed in our school”, a Gadol should be asked for guidelines as per when and how it should be done.September 17, 2008 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #622124
Did you see the flier stuck in the papers and magazines, the gedolim are promising big schar if you support this charity for the poor. well, how about the gedolim doing something for our schools. Pretty soon young couples will say I can only have one child because that’s all I can afford! I have friends who are both working and struggling because they have seven or more children, and these are frum professionals, how much more can they be expected to pay, they are already paying building funds. By the chassidim they have so many kids, yet all of them have a school because the community takes responsibility for them and they make sure they have enough room because the rabbonim and community takes an achryus. By us yeshivish there is no one gadol everyone listens to and there is no achdus, and our rate of kids that are OTD is going up and up.September 17, 2008 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #622125gavra_at_workParticipant
That is my point as well. The gedolim are not going to create money out of thin air. It should be the resposibility of the parents to earn enough money (or raise it) to pay for their children’s yeshiva. The other way is to have the parents cut back, and not have the “luxuries” of the 21st century, such as air conditioning, or homeschool their children (a different thread).
By the chassidim, the “rich” chassid has an achrayus to the rebbe, and gives when he asks. Here, if the Gadol says he needs more money the rich man will find himself another Gadol. Raising money from the Hamon Am WILL NOT cover a school’s expenses. They are too many and not enough people pay what they should.
If you (or anyone else) have a better idea, I would love to hear it.September 18, 2008 12:56 am at 12:56 am #622126just meParticipant
( not even other Rabbanim , besides the Rosh Hayeshivas).
Smart Gal, how do you know that the schools didn’t listened to ANYBODY? Lakewood has grown incredibelly in the past years. In the past-even a few years ago when there was the same problem-the Roshei Yeshiva were like the Chassidic rebbes and ruled Lakewood. Now, Lakewood seems to be turning into Brooklyn, where some people pick the Rabbi that agree with them.
Also, while I agree this situation isn’t like Brisk, it’s no secret that to get into Brisk, you need pull. Talk about elitism.
Unfortunatally, these days, the non-Chassidish schools are businesses like grocery stores. You can pay for my product? You can shop.
A lot of the problem is dollors and cents as many people said. To build, you need money. Grandparents can pay for just so much. Perhaps we might be well served to look at how it used to be in Chassidish circle: a boy learned until he got married, then went to work and learned either before work or after work or both. If a person sincerly wants to learn, he can.September 19, 2008 1:11 am at 1:11 am #622127
a small point,
its not only being rejected by the school its how its done, should you speak to a parent or child that was rejected,or “thrownout” ,the way its done and how they are treated is a nightmare,if the criminals in jail were to be treated like that there would have already been riots,hashem yerachaim al amo!
we however should point out that there are only a few of these bullies in the school system, and we should praise the rabbeim who are mosser nefesh for their talmidim
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