BLM vs HAMAS

Dear Health,

Peaceful demonstrations seem to stay on track toward the original goal in the long run.

Violence could be more effective, when the problem is that nobody is willing to talk for/to you.

The ideology of violence (as far as I can tell) is reserved for when the subjugated, or those who think they are subjugated, understands the oppositions thinking a certain way. And according to that understanding, the opposition would never really give ground, because it undermines their whole sense of self. This is also behind the ideology of war. As well as competitive sports. (The yankees think the red sox would not allow the yankees to win the world series, as that is part of the red sox’ identity.)

Dear Akuperma,

Palestinians, free elections? Ha!

<i>If the Israelis come up with a peace plan that the Palestinian people support in a free election, the conflict with Hamas will disappear.</i>

This is about the same as saying had the Jews figured out a way to appease the Nazis the holocaust never would have happened. The holocaust was the result of their failure to do so

Dear Akuperma,

As n0mesorah pointed out, Antifa isn’t an organization. It is a bunch of anarchists who like to riot, now known to also contain a bunch of far right folks who join in in an attempt to discredit everyone on the left.

BLM isn’t Nazi at all. It is run by Marxists whose hero is a convicted cop killer now living as a fugitive in Cuba. Prior to the Nazis coming to power the German Marxists fought street battles with rocks, clubs, and the like. (Both sides would have used guns but they had been banned at the insistence of the US, UK, and France in 1919.) I have been calling out BLM’s national leadership since 2014

“they are a fake people – they are descendants of Lebanese and Syrians who came for economic opportunities”

That is completely untrue. None of these terms for nationalities were in use until late modern times; the earliest use of the term “Palestinian” appears to have been 1911; Syrian nationalism and Lebanese nationalism are both from the second half of the 19th century — and all three originated with Christians! But in any case the entire region was part of the Ottoman Empire. Moving from Damascus to Jerusalem was like moving from Baltimore to Boston. Not an issue at all. To call Palestinians “fake” with no right to live in the Land is the same kind of nonsense that we hear from Hamas when it insists that Israelis are colonialists! It is similar to telling me that I have no right to live in New York because I was born in Pennsylvania. (The latest twist on this is that the Trumpies will claim that I really was not born in Pennsylvania because my family moved to Maryland when I was a year old.)

Palestinian Arab Muslim families are big into geneology and many can trace their ancestry all the way back to early Ottoman times. This helps to facilitate cousin marriage, which is also very popular among Israeli and Palestinian Arabs. The Ottoman censuses found that the 16th century population was almost entirely Muslim, with few Christians or Jews, and population growth of Muslims is completely explainable through relatively low rates of natural increase.

The term “Palestinian” is older than that of most national identities. It is older than the term “Israeli”. We don’t have to come up with nonsense ahistorical arguments to justify Zionism. And we should not when they provide ammunition to our enemies.

Charlie,
You do not know history. The term “Israeli” was first used in the Tanach. There were two different nation called “Plishtim” (Philistines) but “Palestine” was first applied by the Romans as part of their attempt to erase all memory of it belonging to the Jewish people. The term “Palestinian” later was a regional description like “New Yorker”.The First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations (in Jerusalem, February 1919), adopted the following resolution: “We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time [my note: in fact, it was part of the Ottoman district of Syria, in fact, the NILI spies were tried and hanged in Damasus as that was the area capital]. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds”. Under the Mandate, Jews who held Mandatory citizenship were also called Palestinians.The term “Palestinian people” in reference to a segment of the Arab people was first used by the PLO in 1967.

Dear Charliehal. Re Arab Immigrants grandchildren called since the 1960s as palestinians….

Name

Palestinians first referred to Jew or Arab.
Hiwever, after Shukairy (Shukeiri) was fired (Dec.16.1962) from his UN post for saluting. (Nov.30.1962) Nazi Tacuara gang (who, months earlier has kidnapped, tortured, carved swastika on a girl as revenge for Eichmann’s death), months later appeared a “palestine” separated entity identity – idea.

Arab Immigration

Joan Peters 1985 book and Mark Twain’s 1800s testimony have neen vilified by Arabists as well as by extremist anti Israel Haaretz types. But it is fairly relatively new. Since the 1990s. Or shall I say “too late”…

To say that the 1880s Jewish immigration didn’t boost Arab immigration, is ludicrous.

I’m not saying that each and everyone of the Arab who was in Israel/palestine at 1948 were all 100% children of immigrants. But some say at least most of them can’t trace back more than 2 generations. The (original!) last names of prominent palestinian Arab families also tell of their origins.

—–

it is very difficult to make a case out for the
misery of the Arabs if at the same time their
compatriots from adjoining states could not be
kept from going in to share that misery.
— British Governor of the Sinai from 1922 to 1936

… So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have 
crowded into the country and multiplied till their 
population has increased more than even all world Jewry 
could lift up the Jewish population.
— Winston Churchill

—-

FM Gottheil: The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931

Dear n0mesorah, topic was BLM vs HAMAS. so I replied on both.

“When people feel that their message is falling on deaf ears, they may resort to ‘forcing’ people to pay closer attention to their movement.”

It seems that you understand the language of rioting. (I am NOT saying that you condone violence. I am only saying you seem to understand their message.) Can you explain exactly what it is that the rioters goals are?

I feel really bad for African Americans and other minorities who live in the “hood”. The neighborhoods are filled with dangerous criminals, tons of garbage and destroyed buildings. They live in a western country that looks like a warzone.

For one semester, I attended a community college in a sketchy neighborhood. During that semester, at least every other week on the bulletin would be written that people had been murdered in the neighborhood. In fact, three times during the semester, the school was on lockdown because a murderer was nearby. Once, he was hiding in the parking lot
Another time, while I was in class, I found out that a murderer had ran through the school hallways while being chased by the cops. The third time, the cops had closed the nearby streets to traffic because a serial killer had escaped from a prison in a neighboring state and was hiding in buildings less than a black away from my school.

I was young and naive when I went to that college so I thought those experiences made the college more of an adventure while I noticed the black kids would be extremely on edge whenever these things happened. The time that the murderer was hiding in the parking lot, I was in the bathroom with some black girls who were crying, terrified to leave because they were worried that they might die. I reassured them that I wasnt afraid but, one of them explained that someone’s boyfriend (I cant remember if it was hers, a friend’s or a cousin’s boyfriend) had been murdered a few blocks from the school. I felt terrible, and I feel terrible that this is happening only 4 miles from my parents cushy neighborhood where I grew up.

I understand why they’re rioting. They live a couple miles away from the beautiful downtown and their neighborhood is dangerous and dilapidated and many people dont know who their father is. I get it that they think that the cards are stacked against them with it being exceedingly difficult to achieve a better life. To me, that sounds like a foolproof recipe to create an aggressive teenager. Still, other than the fact that they’re angry, I don’t understand the message of the rioters. Do they want more police? Do they want to abolish police? Do they want signs on the street? I’m pretty sure that they dont speak for the average black person or else we wouldn’t be seeing the same trouble makers showing up at every riot. I’m pretty sure that the silent majority of the black community would rather that these rioters not make it seem that the only language that blacks speak is that of violence.

One last thing, if the media and Democrat politicians had integrity, they would talk at least as much about the police that are killed by blacks then they talk about blacks killed by police.

Dear Milhouse,

One of the differences between BLM and the old guard (e. g. Sharpton) is that they are about policy changes and not about leadership. One of the underpinnings of Marxism is, that nobody cares about anything besides for usefulness. the intention of Marx, was to make the proletariat useful on his/her own terms, and that would enable people to care for themselves. Because nobody else will.