bochurim/girls "learning" in israel

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  • #603012

    can anyone please enlighten me on why we spend thousands of $$$$$$$ so that our kids can go learn in israel i heard a few stories that bochurim/girls who didn’t do anything over there and just went on trips the whole day (& the money went to waste) and they came back worse (in ruchniyus) then when they went.

    #871622
    Sam2
    Participant

    Because the vast majority grow a great deal. If it’s not right for your kid, don’t send him/her.

    #871623
    BYbychoice
    Member

    It is a great expeirance for both!!! It also helps them to see if they really have the will power to make the right choice of doing things worth while( atleast most of time)! It is what they make it!

    #871624
    takahmamash
    Participant

    You want to send them so they can learn about the beautiful mitzva of yishuv ha’aretz, and how much they will be missing out on by not living here.

    #871625
    BalabustaInDaHouse
    Participant

    Actually Sam2, you are misinformed. According to a majority of people who have gone there, it is considered a “success” if they stayed on the same level as they came. Many kids go places and do things that they would never have done in America. Even those who do not do terrible things will still become more lax in mitzvos, such as getting up late for davening, missing a shiur or two…etc. Every yeshiva bochur there has an unspoken rule- whatever happens in Israel, stays in Israel. They will never rat out their friends about the things they have done there. I personally know several people who met their spouses while “learning” there. Unfortunately, even parents who think they know their kids, do not. The only reason people send their kids to Israel is for shidduch purposes. This is not enough of a reason to send your precious children to a land of taayvos. Aside from it being an absolute waste of money, they will gain much more by learning in town, under the roof of their parents. Taking a course at night will also keep them out of trouble and prepare them for a much needed livelihood in the future. It is time for this trend to stop.

    #871626
    akuperma
    Participant

    In all fairness, Americans at that age (18, fresh out of high school, away from home for the first time) have a global reputation for “partying” instead of learning. We would prefer greater studiousness and piety from our children, they do behaive a lot better than the goyim the same age.

    Arguably, they would be better off staying at home with their families, but children that age think they are grown up and are restless to leave home.

    Traditionally, this is when they got married. They are too old to be children in their parents’ houses.

    #871627
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    BalabustaInDaHouse: Maybe you get your info from the wrong sources…because your picture is really skewed. Maybe you’re talking only from the boy’s side of the picture (which I admittedly know nothing about, being a girl and not having any brothers who went to E”Y to learn), but as Sam2 said, this is absolutely not so with the vast majority (of girls, at least). As Sam2 said, most people go to learn. Again, it’s different for girls, the majority of whom aren’t going for an intense scholastic experience, but I don’t know a single person who went just to “have fun.” The can “have fun” in the States just fine. I’m sure there are people who have their fun there too, but why on earth do you think that that’s the majority?

    Besides, all you people whining about the crazy amount of money – between all the different scholarships you can get, and the generous breaks that a LOT of places will give you, it’s almost impossible to pay the sticker price. I paid only $7,000 out of pocket, all told. If I applied for even more random Walmart scholarships and such, it probably would have been even less. (I have some friends who did apply for every scholarship under the sun and in fact did end up paying almost nothing.) If you are really paying sticker price, then you (or your child) are uninformed or stam lazy.

    #871628
    Csar
    Member

    OneOfMany: Tell me about these scholorships. They are news to me. $7k for a year in Istael??

    #871629
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Israel Option program + Masa + tuition break + random scholarships. College Board has a big fat book that lists all these random scholarships and eligibility requirements.

    #871630
    Csar
    Member

    What is Israel Option and Masa?

    #871631
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    All the Jewish colleges have Israel Option programs, where you get credit for your year in Israel as if you were a student at their college at the time. This also enables you to get any federal aid that you would get as a student in their college (unfortunately does not work for their own private merit awards/financial aid. Masa is a program that gives scholarship money for students who want to learn in Israel.

    #871632
    BalabustaInDaHouse
    Participant

    I personally chose not to go to Sem. in Israel for 3 reasons. A) I wasn’t interested in being brainwashed into marrying a Kollel guy. B)I found it to be a total waste of $ and couldn’t bring myself to do that to my parents. I had rather used the $ my parents saved for me on my wedding and down payment for my house. (Yes, I thought about buying a house when I was 17)And finally C)I was perfectly happy going to Sem. in town. They had just as much to offer, if not more.

    #871633
    BalabustaInDaHouse
    Participant

    As for the girls going to Sem, I just don’t see the benefit. Especially after speaking to girls who had just come back from Seminary in Israel. Their heads are in the clouds, they are on a “high” and are so not in touch with reality. As one girl put it, “It is such a zechus for my father to be able to support my future husband”. So this is what they are teaching them now? That the parents are LUCKY to be supporting 20 year old kids? So twisted! Where’s the derech eretz and hakaras hatov? I just don’t get it…

    #871634
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    BalabustaInDaHouse: First, you realize that all these sem cliches that you’re spouting don’t apply to the majority of the female population, right? Because a good amount of them are actually sentient human beings? Good. Also, sem in town is a great option. I was planning on going to sem in town until someone changed my mind. But that doesn’t mean that sem in E”Y is worthless. It’s a another experience that some girls are pulled towards. That’s all. And as for money, like I said before, girls work their tucheses off the latter half of their senior year pinching together the tuition money. Everyone in my seminary did. Maybe there are some entitled little brats out there, I don’t know. But a better taynah would be, “Why aren’t they working to pay for it?” not, “Why should girls being going?”

    I think a lot of people approach the sem issue from a distorted, overgeneralized perspective. They think that sem in Israel is this fad thingy that girls and their parents feel this imperative to take part of, due to peer pressure/shidduch options/whatever. But it really isn’t like that. In fact, there were less than 15 Israel-goers in my high school class of 70. The overwhelming majority chose to go to half-day seminary programs, and start college. If anything, peer pressure dictated that you stay home. And plenty of them have already gotten engaged just fine, so I suppose it didn’t have any impact on their shidduchim. This was the case with most of my friends in other schools in NY, too. The reality is just different than what people spin in their minds.

    #871635
    BalabustaInDaHouse
    Participant

    I still stand by what I said. I truly believe that it is a risk (for their ruchnius) to be leaving their parents house. Aside from curfew, there is little supervision. No one overseeing where they are going, no one answer to. It is SO EASY to do whatever they want. Many would be afraid of doing those things at home, since they can risk ruining their name from being spotted. Don’t know about your particular school, but at mine, 2 people out of the entire grade stayed behind at the in town sem. The rest “had” to go to Israel. As for my Sem, I was very happy with it. And kudos to them for not even approaching the subject of kollel.

    And btw, those yeshiva boys hanging out with girls- Those aren’t Israeli girls! They are American seminary girls. Don’t tell me that girls are so ‘innocent’. I don’t buy it. Even if they are not the majority and only fraction will fall, is it WORTH it?

    #871636
    shtiky shlo
    Member

    BalabustaInDaHouse i disagree with you these are supposed to be mature kids trustworthy of being away from the house bringing up the subject of supervision these kids can do what they want they know it’s not what their parents want but if they want to they cando whatever. im sure moshe would agree

    #871637
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Do you live in E”Y?

    #871638
    interjection
    Participant

    Sometimes it’s necessary, sometimes it’s a waste of money. It goes both ways. I personally know many people for whom the yeshiva/seminary Israel experience turned their life literally from black to white (for many different reasons: social, religious, clarity).

    Every person needs something different. If you don’t think it’s in the best interest of your kids, by all means don’t send them. But don’t ask why others send their children.

    #871639
    antikfira
    Participant

    BalabustaInDaHouse, you have really got to stop overgeneralising what goes on in Israel based on your petty perceptions and the gossip you have heard.

    I live in Israel now and I went to yeshiva here after high school. And yes, I witness with my OWN eyes (not from what other people told me) exactly what goes on here. Yes, 90% of girls from all backgrounds become involved in things that they may have not done before, but you know what? They wanted to all along! The fact that they were too scared to act out because of their parents or their reputation being scarred or any other reason, doesn’t make it worse for it to have happened in Israel! Girls and boys who are deprived of proper chinuch, and therefore don’t really give a flying hoot about halacha behind closed doors (I know this sounds harsh but I’ve spoken to enough seminary girls AND yeshiva guys to make these statements), will “drop in their ruchniyus” the moment they are given access to the outside world, whether in America or Israel. And those who are firmly rooted in their belief, will succeed no matter where they are, but especially in Israel surrounded by like-minded committed individuals who are looking to grow.

    And on the side, whoop-dee-doo that you found a seminary which fit to your already-determined “hashkafas” so you wouldn’t have to deal with facing another take on reality or Judaism that you wouldn’t be able to rebuff. You should really be searching for Truth, no matter how painful or uncomfortable it and it’s implications may be, not searching for people and places to strengthen in your mind what you think you already know. That’s no way to get anywhere in life.

    #871640
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    BalabustaInDaHouse: Are you trying to taynah that everyone gets brainwashed there or everyone goes off the derech there?

    #871641
    cinderella
    Member

    I could spend a very long tine refuting each one of balbustas ridiculous statements but it looks like OneOfMany is doing a fine job on her own.

    #871642
    far east
    Member

    “you are misinformed. According to a majority of people who have gone there, it is considered a “success” if they stayed on the same level as they came”

    Balabusta- not sure how you came up with such a ridiculous statement. I, as well as most of my friends spent time in israel after high school. I obviously cant generalize, but most people i know who went had a positive experience. Yes people party there, but based on experience,the partying in America is much much worse. At least in Israel your partying with other jews in a jewish country. In America the partying is with all non-jews.

    Most people i know, including myself, were able to stay frum in America by riding the inspiration and countless hours of learning we did in eretz yisroel

    #871643
    hockster613
    Member

    agreed. the socializing is mamesh a bizoyan to klal yisroel. Gedolim are being niftar and this shmutz is going on. My brother barred his kinder from Eretz Yisroel for this exact reason. I know plenty of mishpacha who went off the D for because of this. Its become the “hip” thing to do. When i was a child it was unheard of for a young teenage child to go on a plane so far away to learn. Its as if we are telling our children that their is no Torah in America! Klal Yisroel must stand up and do something about this horrible Nisayon Now!!!

    #871644
    antikfira
    Participant

    hockster613 you simply must be kidding, I can’t help but hear sarcasm in your tone.

    But if you are being serious, then I truly feel pity for you.

    But you really must be joking, so I won’t get too worried.

    #871645
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    I think he’s a troll…

    😛

    #871646
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Did anybody notice in her first post, BalbustaInDaHouses called Israel a “land of taayva”. So what does that make the US?

    #871647
    Yussel
    Participant

    What is wrong with writing/saying the word “seminary”. Why must it be “sem”?

    #871648
    antikfira
    Participant

    Thank you OneOfMany, I’m glad to know I’m not alone on this one 🙂

    #871649
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Well, I really have no clue if he is or not, but it seems the mods think so…

    #871650
    ED IT OR
    Participant

    Yussel = haifagirl?

    Just joking but what’s wrong with sem?

    #871651
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Wanna hear something funny? The word “seminary” more correctly refers to boys’ yeshivos than what we call girls’ seminaries.

    #871652
    writersoul
    Member

    Merriam-Webster definition:

    Definition of SEMINARY

    1

    : an environment in which something originates and from which it is propagated

    2

    a : an institution of secondary or higher education b : an institution for the training of candidates for the priesthood, ministry, or rabbinate

    #871653
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    haha

    #871654

    Yes, whenever non-Jews refer to Jewish seminaries, it’s referring to yeshivos. The Mir seminary, the Ponevezh seminary, the Chevron seminary, the Merkaz HaRav seminary…

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