April 24, 2015 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #615564
I wonder if anyone happens to know the answer to this question. I am asking my rov anyway, but I was curious. If someone makes challah with gluten-free oat flour, the rbacha made on it is Hamotzi. But what if the person making the challah puts apple sauce (not juice) in the dough? Does that make it like cake/Mezonos, or can she still say Hamotzi? Any thoughts from the rabbonim out there?April 24, 2015 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #1073811
With or without water?April 24, 2015 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1073812
I don’t know the answer to your question, but I’d be interested in hearing the answer you do get from your rav.
The WolfApril 24, 2015 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #1073813
“With or without water?”
Other relevant questions are:
April 24, 2015 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1073814
- Is there more water than apple sauce and oil?
- How are you going to use it?
- Is the taste of the apple sauce or juice noticeable? This Q is more applicable for Sepharadim.
Make sure you take along a piece for your Rav to taste.April 24, 2015 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #1073815
She used 2 cups of water, half cup oil, under a cup of apple sauce. NO juice, but a spoonful of cider vinegar was added. It is problematic to give a taste to the Rov, because what bracha does HE make? This is for someone who must be gluten free, so she cannot make hazmotzi on anything else, unfortunately.April 24, 2015 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #1073816
It was meant for lechem mishneh for her for shabbos. If she can’t wash for it, she won’t be able to wash for hamotzi.April 26, 2015 2:45 am at 2:45 am #1073817
My rov said she has to wash, make Hamotzi and bensch.April 26, 2015 3:33 am at 3:33 am #1073818
My rov said she has to wash, make Hamotzi and bensch. Did your Rov also tell you that she could wash, make Hamotzi & bensch over it for her Seudas Yom ha’Atzmaut?April 26, 2015 3:34 am at 3:34 am #1073819
The OP made an assumption. Are we sure that assumption is correct?April 26, 2015 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #1073820
Yes, Sam, we follow our mesorah, despite what current agricultural science may say.April 26, 2015 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1073821
oomis – I also can no longer eat gluten (or potatoes) and am constantly looking for options. This was my first gluten free Pesach and I thought of you often!April 26, 2015 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #1073822
DY: Who’s disagreeing? We have no Mesorah on gluten-free oats.April 26, 2015 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1073823
I was under the impression that gluten free oats were the same min as regular oats.April 27, 2015 3:58 am at 3:58 am #1073824
I think that if you are koveia seudah on the rolls, you have to wash/hamotzi/bench regardless.April 27, 2015 5:46 am at 5:46 am #1073825
DY: What would give you that impression? If gluten is what defines Chimutz, it makes tremendous sense for anything totally gluten-free to necessarily be a different Min.April 27, 2015 7:05 am at 7:05 am #1073826
The only Pikpuk I’ve heard of of with regards to Matza. Since Chametz is about the gluten, the theory goes, without it you don’t have Matza.April 27, 2015 11:48 am at 11:48 am #1073827
I have heard that people think oats should be like rice, and that the fifth min is a variety of barley. One of the arguments is that the gluten in oats is just cross contamination from other species.
I haven’t really looked into it much, since I’ve heard b’shem gedolei haposkim that our mesorah is that oats are from the chameshes minim, and I suppose I accept the argument that gluten free oats are just oats without gluten.April 27, 2015 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1073828
There seem to be a lot of “glutten-free” people nowadays. I don’t remember having so many people with this issue years ago. Is it a new thing? If so, what caused it? Vaccines?April 27, 2015 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #1073829
Avram in MDParticipant
I don’t remember having so many people with this issue years ago. Is it a new thing? If so, what caused it? Vaccines?
I don’t think there is any one known answer, but here are some of the thoughts that I have had.
1. Better diagnosis of celiac as a cause for sickness
2. Due to increased screenings, celiac diagnoses being made even when symptoms are not present
3. Not related to celiac, in the past generation, added gluten has been used as a food additive (it makes breads rise better and yields a nice, chewy texture), so perhaps the increased amounts are resulting in increased sensitivity.
4. Perhaps some people are more sensitive to newer bred varieties of wheat.
5. Increasing self-diagnosing/misdiagnosing of gastro ailments as wheat sensitivity.April 27, 2015 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1073830
although I don’t quite buy in to all the hype about genetically engineered blah blah blah I am seeing more legitamate food sensitivities which can very well be due to all our food being so “played with”. Between the processing and radiation and whatever, who knows what the bottom line is. I don’t have celiac but if I eat gluten my head will hurt terribly and it literally makes me unable to function. I fall asleep and feel horrible even when I wake. Saying away from gluten has made me even more sensitive to it. And after a year without it I am noticing it starting to happen from eating other foods. It’s a huge “krich”, as my kids would say.
In answer to 42’s query, it may be vaccines, but I think it may actually come from homework and I propose we put an end to it completely to save the next generation.April 28, 2015 3:24 am at 3:24 am #1073831
Gluten is found in all but one of the five grains that can become chometz. Oats can ALSO become chometz, but unless there is cross contamination with another gluten grain during the growing our harvest, it intrinsically seems to be gluten free, making it a good choice for those who cannot tolerate gluten.
The rov paskened she had to wash for these rolls, for some of the reasons mentioned, i.e. koveya seuda etc. The gluten does not cause the chometz, or matzah would be chometzdig even before 18 minutes. The flour itself is the problem for people with gluten isues, because it contains glutens. Oats seem to generally not be an issue, and they could turn to chometz afterward, just like any of the five grains, but still be safe for people with celiac.
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