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What is the source of the minhag to braid (or plait) ?????
6 braids on each = 12, corresponding to the lechem hapunim. Some people have a vuv on top instead of braids. Alot of rebbes have 12 chalos.
6 braids on each = 12, corresponding to the lechem hapunim
Except that not everyone does six braids. When I make challah, I usually only do three braids.
The Wolf
Wolf,
Since,apparently you have a minhag to braid challah, and to use three braids, would you share the reason for your minhag.
You seem to be offended by the reason offered by RebRy, perhaps you can afford a more profound reason, and not resort to the mundane.
Since,apparently you have a minhag to braid challah, and to use three braids, would you share the reason for your minhag.
The reason for my “minhag” is that three is easiest for me.
You seem to be offended by the reason offered by RebRy, perhaps you can afford a more profound reason, and not resort to the mundane.
Who said I was offended? I was merely pointing out that not everyone uses six braids.
The Wolf
In camp the minhag is three.
Wolf,
It is simple, you have no such minhag. You just “like” a braid of three. The OP asked a reason for the minhag and you responded from left field.
I think that enough of clarification for this time. .
It is simple, you have no such minhag.
I never claimed it was a minhag. But that being said, I don’t believe it can be said that six-braid challah is the only “legitimate” type of challah.
In addition, the OP didn’t specify a number of braids.
The Wolf
I am the long time challah baker in these here parts, and male, so I break lots of “rules”. My heavy doughs don’t braid well, and I have no patience for it, but I feel really guilty to just do lumps. Figure 8s, five leaf rolls, wiggles and sectionals are my comfort zone.
P.S. If anyone has the secrets to produce a real NY Bialy, please post.
Reb RY: 6 braids on each = 12, corresponding to the lechem hapunim.
Why should the challos on my Shabbos table represent the lechem hapanim?? Should I try to make the Challos facing each other like the lechem haponim? Should I add olive oil for the menorah, and spices for the mizbeach hazahav? How about adding some meat and ashes for the mizbeach haChitzon?
I am just trying to understand the logic? My wife also makes 6 braids. I am just curious as to why? If there is a mikor of making chollos braided, I would agree to Wolf: three is far easier.
I was taught as a child that we have 2 challos (not 12) to remember the “mon” that came on erev Shabbos double? Now suddenly if I don’t have 12 I am a shaygitz??
My mother braided three and her mother braided three. That’s enough for me.
Zaidy 78,
You are not a sheigetz for not knowing of the reason people have the minhag of braiding with six or using 12 challos.
Lechem Mishnah, which is based on how the mon fell, is Halacha. This is a minhag that coincides with the Halacha and seeks to bring the zechus and Brocha of the Lechem hapanim to the Shabbos table.
However you may be a sheigetz based on your disdain of a beautiful minhag. Perhaps the problem is that you are lacking in the understanding and appreciation of other people and their minhagim. Particularly when they are focusing on infusing the mundane with something sublime.
And it is not just a little ga’avah on your behalf and Wolf’s as well that you feel that only what you do is correct, any who does more is crazy. Every time someone mentions a minhag or Halacha that the certain people are unaware of or decide to ignore you know who gets their knickers ion a twist and they express their horror and disdain. It would seem that they are about to have a rupture. It is easier to let people be and it actually be satisfying to learn something.
People who understand the reason behind braiding were kind enough to share a reason for that minhag. They are not forcing you or Wolf to do so. I doubt they will ever be at your table for you to even be concerned that your sensibilities would be so offended ( and seeing how you are so dismissive of others hanhagos, it is not surprising that they would forgo just such a “pleasure”).
I bake with six braids each and every week, except when it is Chodesh Tishrei then, I make round ones. It is very easy to make 6 braids, and you get the hang of it. It becomes second nature.
I make the small rolls with 3 braids and then bend the ends down, so that it looks like a flower.
When I bake a very large simcha challah, I make 6 braids and then with half of the weight of the original 6 braided one, I make 3 braids on top. It looks beautiful.
as BB said, once you get the hang of making 6 braid challos, it is easy. I used to make 4’s and 6’s when we made bigger challos but now since we don’t eat as much challah, we make smaller ones and its harder to do 4’s and 6’s with smaller challos. so we make 3’s.
and the plus side to that is my 5 year old sister can help get ready for shabbos. we make the ropes, pinch them together and then she braids them. it keeps her busy and out of the way
And it is not just a little ga’avah on your behalf and Wolf’s as well that you feel that only what you do is correct, any who does more is crazy.
EXCUSE ME??
I never said anything even remotely like that! I pointed out to RebRY that not everyone uses six braids and that other braid counts can be considered legitimate as well. That was it. Nowhere did I disparage anyone who makes a six-braid or any other count. Furthermore, I even confirmed to you that when I use three, it’s not out of any minhag but plain, simple convenience. NOWHERE did I say that “[my way] is correct and anyone who does more is crazy.” I challenge to show me where in this thread I made a remark even remotely like that.
Look, I love a good argument and debate. By all means, challenge me on anything I actually *did* say. But don’t go ahead and put words in my mouth and put forth arguments on my behalf that I never made.
Lastly, there are many horrible, negative things you can truthfully say about me — Lord knows I say plenty of them myself. But I think it can safely be said that ga’avah is NOT one of my faults.
I expect your apology forthwith.
The Wolf
Wolf,
I apologize. As you so succinctly told us, you are the biggest anav around
I apologize. As you so succinctly told us, you are the biggest anav around
An apology wherein you do the very thing you are apologizing for is no apology.
I never said that I was “the biggest anav around” or anything remotely similar. I don’t see why you seem to like saying that I say things that I never said. Saying that ga’avah is not one of my faults does not equal saying that one is “the biggest anav around.” That’s like saying that because I’ve never been drunk I must be the world’s greatest abstainer. In fact, I do drink, but never to the point of drunkenness.
Can you understand that there is lots of middle ground between those two position that I, like 99% of the population occupy.
Now, how about an honest, sincere and genuine apology.
The Wolf
nishtdayngesheft,I’m sorry for getting you so riled up.
All I was asking is why 6 braids have a shaychis to lechem haponim?
Maybe it has to do with the twelve names on each of the avnei shoham? (That would at least explain 6×2)
Maybe it has to do with the 12 hours of the day?
Maybe it has to do with the 12 step program of AA?
Maybe the stress should be on 6 (6 braids in each Challos)?
Like learning Shas on Shabbos.
Or 6 days of work creation before the original Shabbos?
So, RebRY, says the source is Lechem HaPanim. Fine. Again, why should my challos somehow connect to Lechem Hapanim? And if there is a source, why don’t we all have twelve individual challos, LIKE THE LECHEM HAPANIM? Why in Tishrei is there one round challos, without braids? Were the Lechem HaPanim not brought in Tishrei???
I am not saying that we should stop making 6 braids. As I posted, my wife makes 6 braids. I personally think it has to with the style that my wife, and her mother, prefer. Just like the Honey Chicken and coleslaw, and great ice cream desserts. She like them, thinks they are pretty, and is therefore michabed the holy Shabbos that way. But if RebRY is saying that it has to do with the lechem haponim, what is the source and why davka that.
Zaidy, it has to do with Kabuleh. if you go to a tish you will see that the rebbe has all 12 challos.
I always thought it was braided in 3 for the chut hameshulosh. Does it really matter how many braids and why they are braided? Is it not more important to recognize that CHALLAH is not merely bread on a Saturday? It is a specific mitzvah. The fact of having it at ALL is probably for the lechem hapanim, but the braiding in different ways makes it look distinctive for Shabbos. People who do the braiding may have thought of the different reasons for their braiding styles THEMSELVES. Is it an HALACHA?????
Just for the record I don’t eat challah. I eat bread. On those rare occasions when I bake bread, I burn the challah.
Those of you who eat challah, do you make the bracha “hamotzi challah min ha’aretz”?
When I saw The Wolf’s original posts, I so wanted to say that he does 3 braids because he is a big baal Avera and a Rasha! But then I saw how the other posts went and decided that some may not understand what I am saying, so I won’t say it…
SiDi
“Zaidy, it has to do with Kabuleh. if you go to a tish you will see that the rebbe has all 12 challos.”
Maybe the twelve Challos at the Rebbe’s tish has to with the lechem hapanim al pi kaballah, (hopefully, it’s nothing more than a zecher for the lechem hapanim, because no rebbe’s tish is a Shulchan HaZahav in the Bais HaMikdosh). Should I start having 12 challos on my Shabbos table?? Are each of the twelve Challos at the tish one braid or 6 braids? Does the Rebbe have 12 challos when there is no tish?? Or can it remotely possibly be that because they need alot of challah for sherayim so they need more than two, and twelve and lechem hapanim sounds like a good number with a segula for parnassa from the shulchan??
nishtdayngesheft,
Your lack of sincere apology for assigning positions to me that I never said is deafening.
The Wolf
old post : http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-is-challah-braided
Having 12 challos comes from the Arizal quoted by the Ben Ish Chai Parshas Vayara 15 and he shows how to set it up. See the GRA who explains the 12 challos as splitting the two into 4 by the three meals = 12.
Are sam4321 and Sam2 “related”?
SiDi™
nope
It’s a good question,and I’m curious to know the answer too. Does anyone posting here know the answer? I am curious as to why we braid altogether, I don’t care so much about the amount of braids. Thank you.
ok
SiDi™
Does anyone have 12 challos at their regular Shabbos table? (Besides for Rebbes at tish). Do 12 braids count as twelve Challos? Can all 12 be braided into one challah?
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