February 12, 2022 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #2059595
You’ll be needing a booster every four months to maintain proper protection.
That’s three Covid booster shots per year, for the mathematically challenged.
Y’all can start scheduling your vaccine maintenance.February 12, 2022 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #2059731
Conspiracy!February 13, 2022 2:42 am at 2:42 am #2059743☕️coffee addictParticipant
I stopped after the 1st booster (one month after the original)February 13, 2022 2:47 am at 2:47 am #2059755LostsparkParticipant
If you have gotten a fourth you deserve to be called a sucker at this point.February 13, 2022 2:47 am at 2:47 am #2059762
1) this is for wuhan vaccine v. omicron, and large number of antibodies are needed to defend against a different variant as each antibody/vaccine encounter is less successful. Omicron vaccines are currently in phase 3 testing.
2) people generally acquire long-term immunity (T-cells, etc – beyond antibodies circulating in blood) to coronaviruses by encountered them multiple times during childhood. That is, we still get infected by “common cold” but with no serious damage.
So, presumably and logically, every encounter with either covid or a vaccine moves us towards that goal. According to many, that now include CDC, these encounters need to have some time between them, like two months. You surely want first several encounters to be vaccine and not covid to avoid possible damage. British results on side effects show 2 case of myocarditis/million for both Pfizer 2nd dose and booster, so no increased risk. So, boosters seem to be not controversial at least for population 40+ y.o. So, 4 months is too much, but presumably 6-12 month separate boosters (esp if tuned for the current variant) will make most of the adults fully safe from the “endemic” covid.February 13, 2022 7:47 am at 7:47 am #2059802Ohevet YisroelParticipant
So much hatred. Is that the Torah way? Why cant we allow and respect each person their choice? Respect the areas that require masks even if you dont believe in them. Just as you would like people to respect tznius requirements in places that request them. Just as you would respect the request for quiet in the library. Just as you would respect behavior norms when expected. In addition, please respect the fact that many families lost a love one due to this virus and are sensitive to callous remarks. Please respect the fact that many families parnassa was terribly hurt and let us try to support their current endeavors. Let us lovingly and patiently rebuild, not destroy. You dont want a vaccine? who is forcing? Why call those who do want boosters- derogatory names. That isnt the Torah way.February 13, 2022 7:56 am at 7:56 am #2059819jackkParticipant
So everyone can be mekayam the holy mitzvah of “V”Nishmartem” 3 times a year ? Gevaldik. Thanks for the PSA.
It must be a daf yomi coincidence, since we are learning maseches chagiga where there are 3 other mitzvos (Rieyah, Chagiga and Simcha) that Hashem commands us to do specifically 3 times a year to become closer to Him.February 13, 2022 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2059915
The problem is that people who only took 4 boosters are only 4 times protected. We could still do better, maybe 6 or 7 boosters and go from there.February 13, 2022 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #2059920
jackk, Chagigah is also talking about 3 simanim of a shoteh:
walking at night by himself (putting himself in danger for no reason and, maybe figuratively, staying in the dark from facts)
sleeping in the cemetery (not accepting norms of behavior?)
tearing clothes apart (refusing bodily protection and again behavioral norms)
Also people with foul odor are exempt – not because of themselves but because they are annoying others.
still, I don’t think we will have vaccination clinics at Beis Hamikdash. Just once during yomim norayim – mi b’magefa …February 13, 2022 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #2059958
RW, I am not sure why this is a laughing matter, whatever your convictions are. Are you laughing at Hashem who sent the disease? Surely, 4 boosters are better than 3 diseases.February 13, 2022 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #2059960
Ohevet > Why call those who do want boosters- derogatory names. That isnt the Torah way.
While I agree with your sentiment, I am not sure these posters care much about Torah way. They would jump on any posting about Fauci, but when I’ve asked them repeatedly what their sources are, what posek approves such behavior – I don’t think I ever saw an answer. I am not sure what brought them to a Jewish site.February 13, 2022 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #2059970
People have short term memories. When the vaccines first came out they were sold as once and done (either one or two shots, vzeh hu.) Only later did they start insisting on a booster. After people got upsed to that, you started hearing murmurs of a fourth shot.
Now they’re starting to slip into the public consciousness never ending, continuous, booster shots.February 13, 2022 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2060000
Exactly ujm but to people such as alwaysask, you are laughing at Hashem. See if the vaccines actually worked it would be one thing, aside for the fact that they have been rushed and untested for side effects as far as long term and that’s undisputed since you cannot test long term (7-10 years) in less than a year.
The fact that CDC deleted from their own website the info of how long vaccines are tested (10-15 years) until they are released, is such a red flag if there ever was one. It’s actually quite scary how less people are reading physical books and rely on internet which in one flash can be updated to a whole different narrative and information. Talk about 1984 where they had a system to update and change historical facts and articles. What we have now is an upgrade to that. One click of the mouse and history is gone and altered.
This is why they had book burnings along the years. This is much more efficient than book burning and way worse since the information will still be there, just altered.
Also yes I know this isn’t a vaccine it’s an mRNA. Isn’t that worse? It’s a new technology and untested in long run!
Bottom line if you want to take vaccines that’s fine. The problem is everyone else has to suffer with vaccine laws because of the brainwashed majority. Same thing goes for masks. They are so genius for coming up with the “it’s not to protect you it’s to protect others from you”. Incredible tactic.February 13, 2022 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #2060002
Ujm, we have a disease hitting the whole world. There were pandemics in the past that destroyed empires, depopulated continents… In this case, some good scientists came up with ways to save millions of people. If you go volunteer at a hospital, help online person to recuperate, surely you will be a tzaddik. Kal vehomer, someone saving millions. Now, you are grumbling that Hashem sent a variant from which that vaccine protects, but less, and you will have to get off the couch and get another pinch. They don’t owe you anything. Go make your own vaccine, or get a CCP vaccine, or sit at your villa, enjoy the view, or develop middah of gratitude. Your choice.February 13, 2022 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #2060003
Rw, you are trying to build a logical argument that I am trying to understand. Unfortunately, you start with “vaccines don’t work” which is not supported by facts, demonstrated by hundreds of papers from multiple countries. I understand when you say “natural immunity” is better, for example. This is a point to which one can respond. But what is your point of saying things out of thin air, I am not sure.February 14, 2022 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #2060180DellpossParticipant
Please provide a link to the source of your statement that booster protection plunges after 4 months.
ThanksFebruary 14, 2022 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #2060271
Dell: This site prohibits links.
The NY Times story, 02/12/2022, is entitled: “CDC data suggests boosters’ protection against severe Covid-19 plunges after 4 months”.
The notice on the CDC website itself, dated 02/11/2022, is entitled: “Waning 2-Dose and 3-Dose Effectiveness of mRNA Vaccines Against COVID-19–Associated Emergency Department and Urgent Care Encounters and Hospitalizations Among Adults During Periods of Delta and Omicron Variant Predominance”February 14, 2022 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #2060299
UJM, thanks for the reference. They compute ER visit and hospitalization reductions of 2 and 3 doses separately for Delta and Omicron periods comparing with unvaccinated. This is done for all mRNA vaccines after correcting for patient and virus prevalence parameters, so looks pretty solid.
Bottom line: 4x reduction in hospitalization at about 5 months and, presumably, higher for deaths (in all data, reduction increases with severity – from infection to ER to hospitalization to deaths).
Here is my summary from their Table 2 on hospitalization:
months <2 2-3 4 >=4 >= 5
Delta 2 doses 17x 11x 10x 5.5
Omicron 2 doses 3.5 3 2.5 2
Delta 3 doses 25x 14x 4x
Omicron 3 doses 11x 8x 4.5x
One question I have on such research is not taking “natural immunity” into account when counting “unvaccinated”. As they would be already more likely to be infected than those with vaccines, this might underestimate the estimate of the vaccine. I do not see this mentioned in the article.February 14, 2022 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #2060324jackkParticipant
You removed the word “SUGGESTS” from the title.
That is a big difference between “there needs to be further examination of this” and “this is definitively concluded.”
You jumped to a possibly false conclusion.February 14, 2022 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #2060384
Jackk, the thread title was the exact wording of the New York Times headline when the story first broke on Friday. (They’ve modified it since.)February 14, 2022 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #2060400
rw > fact that CDC deleted from their own website the info of how long vaccines are tested (10-15 years)
I looked at the original article with these words. They list all steps in vaccine development, and the value of Warp Speed was able to compress all of them. The site says that the final phase 3 trial takes about 60K people, and Pfizer had 44K – close enough. As this is the final step proving efficacy and and safety, there is no reason to worry about quality of previous steps. Just tells you how fast research can happen when government gets out of the way.February 14, 2022 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #2060401
ujm> exact wording of the New York Times headline
you would not consider “you have as much integrity as NYT headline writers” a compliment, would you?
but it worked to attach attention 🙂February 16, 2022 3:44 am at 3:44 am #2060865
“When the vaccines first came out they were sold as once and done (either one or two shots, vzeh hu.)”
You lie about Israel and Apartheid and now you lie about this. There was always the question regarding how long the immunity would last. There are many vaccines that require boosters and this is no exception.February 16, 2022 3:45 am at 3:45 am #2060867
“how long vaccines are tested (10-15 years) until they are released”
More lies. For example, the Salk polio vaccine was developed in 1953 and given to 1.8 million children in 1954. Go back further, the smallpox vaccine was adopted almost immediately after it was discovered by accident in 1796. And that has been the case with more recent vaccines, too. We don’t waste time because there are lives to be saved.
“this isn’t a vaccine it’s an mRNA. Isn’t that worse?”
How to say, “I know nothing about vaccines and am proud of that fact.” The Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are just that, vaccines. They use new technology, developed over the past two decades, that allows for vaccines to be developed and manufactured much more quickly and they have fewer side effects. So they are in fact better.
Why are you trying to kill Jews by spreading anti-vaxxer lies on a Jewish site?February 16, 2022 3:46 am at 3:46 am #2060869
“I understand when you say “natural immunity” is better, for example. ”
Natural immunity was similar to being vaccinated prior to the omicron variant — assuming you survived COVID in good health, which a lot of people did not. But natural immunity did not provide protection against the omicron variant.February 16, 2022 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #2061147jdf007Participant
Breaking? I knew this last year from studies from real agencies (the rest of the world outside of the US).
Prior to Omnicron, I would’ve said just time your boaster to the start of an upcoming wave and you’ll be fine until the next big one. But now? Eh.February 16, 2022 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #2061199Yserbius123Participant
If we are taking CDC data as something we can learn from, CDC data also shows that people with three COVID vaccine shots are not only far far less likely to get hospitalized and/or R”L die from COVID but also far far less likely to pass COVID on to someone else.February 16, 2022 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #2061251
charlie > But natural immunity did not provide protection against the omicron variant.
It provided, similar to the vaccine, protection from severe outcomes in part due to T-cell immunity that is more general than antibodies and come to play after someone is infected.
What we really need for non-vaccinated is a way to get exposed to a light case. For example, make them come into an infected room for 2 minutes [this will avoid possible exposure for 2 hours]. Or, better, release a weakened variant (either find a natural one or engineer). Of course, FDA that had hard time understanding the value of imperfect home tests, will not approve of such “unethical” path even as it will save millions of lives.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.