March 29, 2012 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #602708susheeMember
Those Breslover Chasidim walking around with arms full of Breslov bichelech of wisdom from Rav Nachman zt’l and calendars and what-not, giving a handful to anyone donating a quarter or dollar or however much or little, what do you do with the booklets once done? Must they be placed in shaimos?March 29, 2012 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #864540AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
Keep them. Read them again, – and again. Share them with others. They are worth more than you can imagine.March 29, 2012 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #864541more_2Member
The stuff looks like missionary material I almost has my hubs throw it away until I realized what it was…lol;)March 30, 2012 12:40 am at 12:40 am #864542yytzParticipant
Where do the Breslov chassidim hand this stuff out? Just wondering. I study Breslov chassidut (not na-nach stuff though) but don’t live in an area with a lot of chassidim.March 30, 2012 1:42 am at 1:42 am #864543Bar ShattyaMember
The stuff looks like missionary material I still think soMarch 30, 2012 2:12 am at 2:12 am #864544
All over NY.March 30, 2012 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #864546twistedParticipant
Back in my yeshiva days we were trained to do what is true and right, and not to fear going against the tide. We once opened up one of these volumes that were left in the bais medrash and found the “deah” that one should not do avairos, because when you do, ‘Hashem gets smaller”. Bmaamad chaverim, one of the more energetic fellows ( today a master mechanech) burnt the sefer to ashes.March 30, 2012 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #864547bobbys cowParticipant
Good for him!
I have nothing against chassidus, but you need to be a kanai when it comes to saying things that seem like kefirah. (even if they didnt mean that when they wrote it, it is still inexcusable to allow something like that to be published without at least doing your best to let people know that you dont approve)March 30, 2012 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #864548
While I am no fan of Breslov, you have to understand the meaning before you burn it. And you have to understand what is Apikorsus and what isn’t. Just because you feel like something is Apikorsus doesn’t mean that if you’re wrong you weren’t just Over the tremendous Aveirah of Mechikas HaShem. (I’m not saying anything about this case in particular, just pointing out that rash actions and “Kana’us”, even L’sheim Shamayim, should not be done unless you know all of the pertinent information first.)March 30, 2012 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #864549
That’s from a poor English translation. The books are wonderful and Torah’dik.March 30, 2012 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #864550far eastMember
Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it kefirah…their books have helped many many people,including myself, get through difficult strugglesMarch 30, 2012 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #864551
Whether or not the content is torah-dik or not, I have one pet peeve that I need to share.
Can someone please educate the bochurim who hand them out in restaurants, that it is really not nice to put dates on the spot for Tseddaka. The breslave bochurim often come over when I’m out on a date, and we are interrupted by a bochur, pushing us for tseddakka and wanting to give us a booklet. It is really unfair to put the guy on the spot like that, and it is VERY awkward for both the guy and girl… especially when the bochur, then wishes us Mazel tov, or ‘hatslacha’ (wink wink).
Just thinking about it makes me cringe.
Yes, I know some of you will comment that I get to see how the guy reacts yada yada, but there are plenty of other opportunities to see what the guy is made of, and this is just completely cringable… aside from the interruption which is just annoying.
Please don’t get me wrong, when I’m out with my friends, I don’t mind it half as much and sometimes even give them some $$, but on a date, it adds unnecessary awkwardness to an already awkward situation.
If anyone has any connection to any breslavers that are involved with this- it would be a mitsva to pass this on to them- I’m sure they are just not aware…
Thanks!March 30, 2012 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #864552ChachamParticipant
I found kefira in ? Mishpat hasukim, which says in the last paragraph that the ikkar is to do mitzvos so you can attach your neshama to the neshama of rav nachman and hhis talmid rav nossan. and after doing mitzvos you are connected with them therefore you are saved from din and mishpat, because rav naachman saw how bad the dor was so he promised hashem he will take care of all the neshamos……
sounds christian to me.March 30, 2012 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #864553
Tzedaka is a mitzvah that isn’t pushed aside by a date.
Besides, these bochorim probably don’t even know the difference if the couple are married or dating!March 30, 2012 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #864554
PS: Just realized that someone might need to teach the breslave bochurim how to figure out if a couple is married or on a date- they just need to check the girls left hand- if there are no wedding/engagement rings there then move on to the next table!March 30, 2012 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #864555
These bochorim look at girls/women as little as possible, and won’t be checking out their ring-finger.March 30, 2012 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #864556bobbys cowParticipant
“Whether or not… or not, I have one pet peeve that I need to share.”
whether or not your point is valid, I have one pet peeve that i need to share. It makes no sense to say “whether or not… or not,” please say “whether or not…” or “whether… or not.” (I have a friend who’s a bit of a kanai about this, and its annoying, but he’s right).March 30, 2012 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #864557
Cheftze: 1) Oisek B’mitsva, potur min hamitsva- being busy trying to get married is a mitsva so that would make him patur from tseddaka- I can check with a competent LOR on that one, but I’m pretty sure that is what they would say.
2) Tseddaka is a mitsva, but making people uncomfortable is an aveira… and I don’t think it’s the breslave bochurim’s place to push someone to do a mitsva at the wrong time and place at the cost of 2 other people’s discomfort.March 30, 2012 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #864558
Some folks are uncomfortable being asked for tzedaka anytime. Its still a mitzva to ask them for tzedaka.March 30, 2012 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #864559
Bobbys cow: sorry- that was an editing error 😉 thanks for pointing it out.March 30, 2012 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #864560
Cheftze: They are actually verrrry friendly both to males and females when they come around… I think if they want to be a bit more sensitive and considerate to people, they can re-channel their usual forwardness to a quick glimpse at the females finger…March 30, 2012 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #864561blackhatwannabeParticipant
Does the “metziyas zivug” booklet work? They told me if I say something for 40 days, I would become a chassan.March 30, 2012 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #864562
Blackhat: I actually laughed out loud in a line in there. It said to say the Parshas Han’si’im for 40 days straight then had a Yehi Ratzon with the line, “I have now done my Hishtadlus, now it’s time for You to do as You promised”, or something along those lines.March 30, 2012 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #864563writersoulParticipant
Sam2: I wonder if the hishtadlus works without dating.March 30, 2012 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #864564blackhatwannabeParticipant
Sam2 I saw that also but does it work-very interesting paragraphMarch 30, 2012 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #864565
The clear implication is that it does, which is why I laughed.March 30, 2012 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #864566avhabenParticipant
It works. Hashem doesn’t want a bracha l’vatala (not that it would be), so He fulfils the bracha. We have the same principle of Hashem fulfilling a bracha to avoid a l’vatala elsewhere in Yiddishkeit.March 30, 2012 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #864567Bar ShattyaMember
It works. Hashem doesn’t want a bracha l’vatala (not that it would be), so He fulfils the bracha. We have the same principle of Hashem fulfilling a bracha to avoid a l’vatala elsewhere in Yiddishkeit.
Hashem is always willing to go against what he knows is correct to save the world from a “Bracha l’vatala [Gasp!]”March 31, 2012 12:04 am at 12:04 am #864568ToiParticipant
I asked one of the head nanachs and he told me that the point of all there shtusim is to attach oneself to r nachman and by doing so, you save yourslef from eternal damnation. ring any bells?April 1, 2012 1:29 am at 1:29 am #864569
These booklets arent distributed by the nanachs. They are from the mainstream.April 1, 2012 1:37 am at 1:37 am #864570twistedParticipant
Skoiach Toi, and great pun. Silver bells?April 1, 2012 3:00 am at 3:00 am #864572yytzParticipant
Are they from Israel or America? What shul or yeshiva are they associated with? There are many groups within Breslov — nanachs are just one of many. Just wondering — thanks in advance to anyone who can fill me (an out-of-towner) in.
I don’t think any gadol has ever accused Breslov of being kefira (unlike with Rav Shach and modern Lubavitch). The idea of a tzaddik (such as Rebbe Nachman) having extraordinary power is not kefira — the Zohar says that a tzadik is more powerful after death than during life. Some Breslov prayers say “I hereby attach myself to all the true tzaddikim of this generation and previous generations and particularly Rebbe Nachman ben Faygie.” This isn’t some kind of pseudo-Xian idea, but rather the idea (common to chassidic thought in general) that individuals should attach themselves spiritually and intellectually to the greatest tzaddikim (and one in particular who you have the closest affinity with) so that you can benefit from their greatness and best achieve your tikkun in this world. Of course, it’s possible that some individual chassidim may have over-simplified views of this that are hashkafically questionable. Regardless, people should be very careful about labeling something as kefira unless they have done an in-depth study of the theological issues involved and the views of gedolim and other Torah scholars.
Some great Litvish/Yeshivish rabbis who have spoken highly of Breslov chassidus:
*Rabbi Elya Lopian on Rebbe Nachman’s books: “These are real books of mussar.”
*Rabbi Chaim Shmulevitz, Rosh Yeshiva of Mir: “Through (learning) Likutey Moharan, the mind is opened.” He also said “We work on trying to solve problems (in scripture) and they (Breslover Chassidim) work constantly on ‘fear Hashem and love Him all your days.'”
*The Chofetz Chaim said: “If you wish to draw close to Chassidism, draw close to Breslov. They keep and follow the Shulchan Aruch.”
*Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler quotes from Rebbe Nachman in his books. In a letter to his children, he encouraged them to learn Breslov works in order to merit fear of Heaven.
*Rav Ben Tzion Apter said that here and there the Chazon Ish would speak to him about the strenght and greatness of Rebbe Nachman and each time would say “tell over a teaching of the Rebbe.”April 1, 2012 3:58 am at 3:58 am #864573
YYTZ: While the idea may be able to be retroactively sourced in Judaism, it is very much much more of a Christian idea than a Jewish one. And, I can’t confirm this but I have been told by a very reliable source, it has strong roots in Sabbateanism as well.April 1, 2012 4:05 am at 4:05 am #864574ChachamParticipant
i am trying to find a site that has all the books. in particular ???? ??????? which one guy once gave me and had some solid kefira in itApril 1, 2012 5:53 am at 5:53 am #864575ToiParticipant
it should be noted that different breslov factions have their own agendas, and they edit or add into r nachmans books accordingly.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.