Bridesmaids

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  • #608019
    Seahorse
    Member

    Hi everyone. I would like to share with you all some pleasant news. Bh, I am recently engaged. 🙂 I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on how Hashem may feel about having ‘bridesmaids’ at one’s wedding. Is it permitted? Is it wrong b/c it might leave some friends out? Maybe even be unsnius. What did you all do/what do you think? I’m not looking for an official decree here, just people’s musings. Thanks. 🙂

    #926169
    Confucious
    Member

    It’s a purely goyish thing that has absolutely no place at a Jewish chasuna.

    #926170
    TheGoq
    Participant

    I think while all your single friends are truly thrilled for you i think it would be insensitive to have them as your bridesmaids like that old saying always a bridesmaid never a bride.

    #926171
    Poster
    Member

    what is a bridesmaids? Isnt that the little sisters or nieces walking down the chuppa?

    #926172
    akuperma
    Participant

    “Bridesmaids” are a non-Jewish custom (of pagan origins – Wikipedia believes the Romans used the bridesmaid to confuse evil spirits). The bride’s friends. Jews traditionally are escorted to the ceremony by the parents or someone acting in place of the parents – and in traditional weddings it can be a mob scene rather than the structured ceremony more formal American prefer.

    #926173
    golfer
    Participant

    Poster, bridesmaids are not usually little girls. It refers to friends of kallah marching down to chuppa. Definitely not tznius to have teenage or adult females parading in front of a mixed audience all dressed up and made up to the nth degree. (They will assure you the excessive cosmetic application is for the photographer.) Especially inappropriate at a chupa which is a very holy slice of time. However, very common in some circles. I have seen many times; do not feel qualified to pass judgement when I observe since, as I mentioned, some kallahs seem to like it. It is an adopted “minhag” from non-Jewish weddings.

    Mazel Tov Seahorse! You should definitely discuss with someone knowledgeable that you feel comfortable with.

    #926174
    Toi
    Participant

    i think its the ichiest thing at a jewish chasuna. sorry for the harshness, its just one thing that bothers me alot and you happened to hit the nail on the head.

    #926175
    MorahRach
    Member

    Instead of mamish bridesmaid, I had my closest friends wear long dresses. Actually they asked, since I said no bridesmaids, but they wanted to feel special. My photographer took some pictures of me with them and I am so glad we did because I can cherish them forever. I have a small family so it enhanced the simcha for me.

    #926176
    takahmamash
    Participant

    Why don’t you ask Hashem how he feels?

    #926177
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I like morahrach’s idea, if you must do it.

    But, as others have mentioned, it kind of forces you to choose who are your “closest friends”.

    #926178
    yitzchokm
    Participant

    takahmamash

    “Why don’t you ask Hashem how he feels?”

    watch the way you talk about Hashem.

    #926179
    golfer
    Participant

    MorahR, I really like that.

    Perfect way to make the day special for Kallah & friends without ruining sanctity & beauty of Chuppa.

    What do you think Seahorse?

    #926180
    golfer
    Participant

    Ditto yitzm.

    I think that post needs to disappear. Soon.

    Mods?

    #926181
    takahmamash
    Participant

    Yitz:

    The OP wrote I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on how Hashem may feel about having ‘bridesmaids’ at one’s wedding.

    I merely stated the obvious point. The one mistake I made was not capitalizing the H in “He.”

    #926182
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    On what MorahRach wrote – this thing of having the closest friends is actually a thing that a lot of people do. They call it “wearing long.” Also, I think people here are making it out to be a touchier business than it actually is…

    #926183
    truthsharer
    Member

    Once you do the chukas hagoyim custom of bridesmaids, you might as well go even further into chukas hagoyim and have the bride wear a white gown.

    #926184
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    I honestly don’t see the issue with it. It’s a silly goyishe custom and if someone wants to do it, gezunteh heit! I don’t see anyone complaining about crowds standing up for the Kallah (another goyish import).

    #926185
    Confucious
    Member

    tsharer: Brides wearing white gowns is an original Jewish custom mimicked by the goyim.

    Yserbus: When do we stand up for the Kallah? That is unusual by frum weddings. (Other than by the chupa when you stand up for the Chosson when he walks in and remain standing till everyone’s under the chupa. But that is clearly the Jewish minhag of Choson doma l’melech, a choson and kalla are king and queen.)

    This bridesmaid business is a clear chukas hagoyim, as akuperma and others pointed out.

    #926186
    Toi
    Participant

    yserbius- true, and in fact notable gedolim in america make it a point not to. i once heard a pshat from R yaakov ztl being matzdik it,but limaaseh its not the right thing to do. as an aside, where do you draw the line? youre maskim bringing a tree inside on chanuka is wrong, right? so how do you decide?

    #926187
    Confucious
    Member

    Toi: Gedolim make it a point not to what?

    #926188
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I don’t see anyone complaining about crowds standing up for the Kallah (another goyish import).

    1: Everyone wants to see.

    2: Mechabdin Ovdei Mitzva, just like those who brought Bikkurim. We can only hope the Chassan is a Talmid Chacham.

    #926189
    benignuman
    Participant

    What makes you say that standing up for the Kallah is goyish?

    Standing up is a standard traditional way of showing kavod. There are Talmudic sources that great kavod is given to a bride (and groom) on her wedding day.

    ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ??? ?????. ??? [???] ??? ??. ???? ?? ??? ?????. ??? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ????”? ?????? ????

    ???? ???? ??? ????? ? ??? ?

    ?”?: ??????? ?? ??? ????? ???, ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????. ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???, ??????? ?????.

    ?????? ?? ?? ?”?

    #926190

    It’s amazing how all the minhagim that Jewish and non-Jewish weddings have in common were adopted by non-Jews based on Jewish customs.

    #926191
    walton157
    Member

    Personally, I think the mitavah tanz is the most UNtzinus thing I have ever seen. The bride stands there like a lumiks (spelling?) while everyone is clapping and dancing. Talk about humiliating.

    #926192
    benignuman
    Participant

    “Lummox” is the proper spelling.

    #926193
    Derech
    Member

    Walton: The mitzvah tantz is ancient minhag brought down in the seforim.

    VM: The goyim based their entire religion from us. (Corrupted, of course.)

    #926194
    oomis
    Participant

    As was pointed out, the non-Jewish velt took many customs from US. Perhaps the concept of bridesmaids stems from the concept of the bride having a Shomeres with her until the chuppah.

    In any case, MAZEL TOV on your engagement. May you build a bayis ne’eman b’Yisroel with your chosson.

    #926195
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    VM: The goyim based their entire religion from us.

    Care to tell me from which Jewish practice transubstantiation comes from?

    The Wolf

    #926196
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Care to tell me from which Jewish practice transubstantiation comes from?

    I like a challenge.

    Simple. Wine is because Jesus “changes” the water into Wine. Water was changed into blood during the Makka of Dam. So wine changes into Blood.

    Kimono, kimono, kimono. Ha! Of course! Kimono is come from the Greek word himona, is mean winter. So, what do you wear in the wintertime to stay warm? A robe. You see: robe, kimono. There you go!

    (I would put a smiley, but I don’t want to be a flirt)

    #926197
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Simple. Wine is because Jesus “changes” the water into Wine. Water was changed into blood during the Makka of Dam. So wine changes into Blood.

    Heh. Very cute.

    Kimono, kimono, kimono. Ha! Of course! Kimono is come from the Greek word himona, is mean winter. So, what do you wear in the wintertime to stay warm? A robe. You see: robe, kimono. There you go!

    I liked that movie. Which reminds me… I have to put some Windex on a pimple. 🙂

    The Wolf

    #926198
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    As for the OP, all I’ll say is this:

    Don’t listen to anyone here. You and your Chosson should ask a Rav what to do. Follow what he says, not what anyone here says.

    Oh, yes… and Mazal Tov!

    The Wolf

    #926199
    truthsharer
    Member

    As far as I remember, wearing white is not ancient at all. It is fairly recent, with Queen Victoria bringing it to the masses.

    #926200
    Confucious
    Member

    Jews wore white long before Victoria.

    #926201
    MorahRach
    Member

    Love they movie. And calm fine about the smileys! I was just attempting to point out that some people here are so gung ho that they are better than less religious people etc, when HE is in essence winking at ( any woman in the CR). I don’t take offense because we are all hidden behind our computer screens, I just wanted to point it out.

    #926202
    truthsharer
    Member

    Confucious,

    Please prove it. Everything that I’ve seen shows otherwise.

    #926203
    Seahorse
    Member

    Thanks for all the replies everyone!

    #926204
    golfer
    Participant

    You’re welcome Seahorse!

    Picturing you in a gown with an ocean theme. Layers of organza shaped like waves billowing behind you in a fishtail train? Swarowski crystal fish in your tiara? Real South Sea pearls fresh from the oyster around your neck?

    Whatever you choose, Seah., wishing you a beautiful wedding and many happy years with your prize catch!

    #926205
    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    MAZAL TOV!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats soo excitng!!!! so basically nowadays( in at least my circles) like 3-5 of the kallahs rlly good frends wear long gowns… like same color and wtvr… usually navy..and u wear long to like 3-5 of UR good frends weddings…

    #926206
    tzvideer
    Member

    i am not sure but what are “shushvinim” discussed in Gemarrah and Halacha that would accompany the bride to the Chupa,

    were these not the friends of the Kallah that took her to the chuap – or in modern terminology, bridesmaids??!!

    so yes, bridesmaids is a “Jewish thing” much older than the non-jewish version.

    and somehow i doubt that the Shushvinim who accompanied the kalla were wearing rags, they proabably put on their finest gowns to honor the occasion.

    and as a postscript, Mazel Tov to seahorse, may you be zoche to build a bayis neeman beyisrael.

    #926207
    Nechomah
    Participant

    Just out of curiosity – where do you want your close friends to get their long dresses from? If you want them matching, do you want to go to a traditional bridal store and have them (or your parents) buy dresses for them, or are gemach dresses OK, even not matching?

    If you don’t expect them to pay extra $ for your enjoyment, then go ahead and help them pick their dresses from a gemach or let them go as a group and pick something nice out that they can agree on and enjoy your pictures after the event.

    I would not agree with having them walk down the aisle, as the chassanahs that I have been to in America (my nieces and nephews) only had sisters or nieces going down before the kallah, no friends and none of them were much past Bas Mitzvah, so no big problem with the kehal ogling them.

    As far as white dresses – that is a Jewish custom as it is Yom Kippur for the chosson and kallah and they wear white to reflect that.

    As far as standing up for the kallah, here in EY, all of the men go out with the chosson and all of the women go out with the kallah. We all stay standing for the whole ceremony. The chairs in America are just to make things “more comfortable”, probably started by the people running the hotels/halls, but if you want to show respect, maybe stand on the side of the chairs.

    As many others have said, Mazel Tov and you should be zoche to a bayis ne’eman b’Yisroel.

    #926208

    Even having little boys or girls (siblings, nieces, etc.) or grandparents, etc. walking down the chupa aisle is very modernishe zach (also likely stemming from non-jewish customs) that you do not see by the very frum chasunas.

    #926209
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Chosson domeh l’melech so we stand for the chosson. It is debatable whether this halacha applies to the kallah as well but certainly if her father is a talmid chochom you should be standing for him.

    #926210
    Ðash®
    Participant

    We can only hope the Chassan is a Talmid Chacham.

    How is this relevant?

    #926211
    Confucious
    Member

    Mod42: So if the Kallah’s father walks down the Chupa with the Choson and the two mothers walk down the Kallah, there is no reason to stand for the Kallah…

    #926212
    benignuman
    Participant

    Mod-42,

    I don’t understand those who deliberately do not stand. As you wrote it is unclear whether Kallah domeh L’Malka, and it is certainly clear that Chazal gave a Kallah tremendous import and Kavod. It is well established that standing up is a sign of respect and kavod.

    At the very least there are respectable grounds for the minhag of standing, so why would some people be porush from this minhag?

    #926213

    benig: Who said there was ever such a minhag of standing up for the kallah? Unless you consider the modernishe practices in America that were likely picked up from elsewhere. Do you have any source whatsoever that there is such a Jewish “minhag”?

    #926214
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Actually, if I may, there is a reason for standing up for a Kallah too. One is supposed to stand up and give honor to ANYONE on the way to do a Mitzvah. (I think that is why one stands for a chasan going to his chuppa)

    #926215
    lesschumras
    Participant

    People have been standing for both chosen and kalllah at every wedding I’ve been to for the last twenty years. That included everything from MO to yeshivish, mixed and seperate seating. Apparently it’s a minhag, just not everybody’s.

    #926216
    benignuman
    Participant

    TLKY,

    The word minhag means custom. I.e. what is done. Most sources that record minhagim are telling you something that is commonly done and then trying to find reasons for them after the fact.

    My source for the minhag for standing for the Kallah is that it has been done at every single chuppa I have ever attended (in America, Canada and Eretz Yisroel).

    #926217

    Lesschumras, this debate has been going on for at least twenty years.

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