July 11, 2011 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #597891cshapiroMember
What havve you seen? What would you recommend?July 11, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #784752adorableParticipant
i thought you were too busy for thatJuly 11, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #784753TheGoqParticipant
last one i saw was jersey boys it was very good, clean.July 11, 2011 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #784754Pac-ManMember
They’re all 100% treif.July 11, 2011 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #784755always hereParticipant
I saw ‘Annie’ w/ Andrea McArdle (the original) about 34 years ago.
& one very weird off-(off?)-B’way.
oh! & ‘BEATLEMANIA’ on New Year’s Eve 1977– exactly a week before I got married 🙂
I doubt if any of them are still around for you to see; sorry, I wasn’t of any help 🙂July 11, 2011 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #784756mewhoParticipant
loved phantom, mary poppins, look them up on line and see what they are about and then decideJuly 11, 2011 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #784757GeshmakManParticipant
Lion King is Geshmak! just an amazing, brilliant show. the songs, dances, everything is amazing! Really a classic!
Wicked (Wizard of Oz prequel) is also very good.
I would recommend watching both movies before as “chazara” 🙂
Enjoy!July 11, 2011 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #784758mamashtakahMember
My daughter was in NY a few weeks ago and saw “Catch Me if You Can” and “The Book of Mormon.” She liked both of them, and both got good reviews. My wife is still raving about “Billy Elliott.”July 11, 2011 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #784759MDGParticipant
Besides being overpriced, kol isha, and a waste of time, I think that they are all good.July 11, 2011 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #784760TheGoqParticipant
mdg, Jersey Boys is not kol ishaJuly 11, 2011 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #784761A23Participant
While Book of Mormon is undoubtedly funny, it probably the most vulgar, vile, and non-Torahdik thing on Broadway now.July 11, 2011 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #784762charliehallParticipant
*The Lion King* was awful. Ethnic stereotypes, and glorification of children rebelling against their parents. I would have walked out except that my six year old niece was there and liked it.July 11, 2011 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #784763MiddlePathParticipant
I heard The Book of Mormon was terrific, and Wicked is good as well.July 11, 2011 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #784765Legen-daryMember
too busy- never had a chance to go to one of them…but def on my bucket list…July 11, 2011 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #784766Pac-ManMember
Maybe the next topic of discussion can be which church has the best music or liturgy.July 11, 2011 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #784767gefenParticipant
um….. what’s a broadway show? 😉July 11, 2011 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #784768oomisParticipant
“Wicked” was wonderful, taught the value of true friendship and loyalty, and that things are not always as they seem. I LOVED it.July 12, 2011 12:31 am at 12:31 am #784769aries2756Participant
I took some of my granddaughters to Mary Poppins. It was awesome.July 12, 2011 1:34 am at 1:34 am #784770liddleyiddleMember
“They’re all 100% treif.”
You’ve watched them ALL?July 12, 2011 3:07 am at 3:07 am #784771cshapiroMember
what about spiderman?!?July 12, 2011 3:42 am at 3:42 am #784773wanderingchanaParticipant
If you’re listening to opera at home that’s one thing, but if you look into the story lines, you’ll find that live opera can be a big problem.July 12, 2011 3:52 am at 3:52 am #784775charliehallParticipant
Billy Budd, an opera based on the famous novel by Herman Melville, with a score by Benjamin Britten and a libretto by E. M. Forster and Eric Crozier, has no female singers. The Metropolitan Opera will be performing it next spring. This would be a great opportunity for those whose poskim don’t accept Rov Soloveitchik’s opinion to see and hear what opera is all about.July 12, 2011 5:44 am at 5:44 am #784778OfcourseMember
Newsical, an Off Bway comedy/musical was pretty amusing.July 12, 2011 8:43 am at 8:43 am #784779HaKatanParticipant
Unless you get a personal psak otherwise, I would think Pac Man is basically on the money (perhaps they’re not 100% treif, but they are all definitely treif to various extents).
FACT: You are at least 99% guaranteed to negatively affect your neshama if you go to any performance that is NOT conceived, produced and acted by (pure) Torah-observant Jews. Simply, there has to be at least something in there, whether in concept, execution or both, that is kineged the Torah.
Shevet Reuven fell for Korach’s illogical arguments and rebelled against Moshe Rabbeinu who spoke to G-d face-to-face, Rashi says, because of their proximity in their encampments. But you’re sure you won’t be in any way negatively affected by going to an opera show? Really? It seems foolish and intellectually dishonest to bring raayos from what great men like these did in the times they lived in then for what could very well be personal or otherwise specific reasons/parameters.
In case this is not obvious: when you go to an opera show (or baseball game or anywhere else), you are subconsciously assimilating everything you see and hear. Now multiply that as needed given the emotional song and dance that goes on and it’s much more than subconscious (which is bad enough as you can’t defend it if you tried, unlike someone offering you a ham sandwich).
Besides the above:
The sexual debauchery of today was not what Rav Hutner allegedly went to see at an opera show. Also, since you’re not Rav Hutner, unless your Rav tells you it is okay, it is absurd to cherry-pick something he did then and take it as a carte-blanche heter for you. Incidentally, I don’t recall he recommend Opera in Pachad Yitzchak. Do you have a source for that?
Ditto for Rav Soloveichik, who, by the way, said that the more one can DISengage from modern society, the better! But cherry-picking and ignoring that is more convenient, of course.
Again, not every heter is universal or even close to it. Many are highly individual.
The technical parameters of kol isha are mainly irrelevant if you’re trampling on other issurei dioraysa and dirabbanan as those would in and of themselves forbid one from going to an opera performance. Such as, perhaps, Lo Sikrivu and uvichukoseihem lo seleichu for starters.
Whatever bein-adam laMakom aveiros you may choose to do are between you and G-d (and your Rav, if he permitted YOU to do it), but it’s certainly inappropriate to besmirch the name of great talmidei chachamim (who, as human beings, could have had special circumstances and/or could *possibly* have erred) to give yourself a faux heter to violate issurim chamurim.July 12, 2011 9:02 am at 9:02 am #784780HaKatanParticipant
The comment of:
“” but if you look into the story lines”
True, but by that standard much of Tanakh would be problematic.”
has implications that border on apostasy, CH”V.
And how dare anyone compare our holy Tanach to the depravity of the secular world?
Looking into the story lines of an opera, by your own admission, indicates various problems that make it unsuitable for consumption by G-d-fearing Jews. You mitigate that by positing that Tanach has similar issues, CH”V.
In this regard, the key difference between opera and, lihavdil ribei rivavos havdalos, our holy Torah, even assuming the stories are somewhat similar, is that if Hashem chose to put the story of, say, pilegesh biGiv’ah in the holy Torah, then he intended at least someone(s) to intentionally sit down and study it learn something from it, perhaps not a 10 year old child, but certainly some people at some point in their live(s). And, equally important, even *if*/when there were aveiros committed in some of the stories, there is no tumah in appropriately *learning* about it, as Hashem and His Torah are kulo kodesh. There is certainly no such guarantee about much else on this earth, and as you yourself admitted, certainly not on an opera performance.
Even if you might find one or more positive lessons to learn from an opera show, which is quite possible, this does not permit one to trample the other issurim to do so. So the holy Tanach (of all things!) cannot be used to justify immorality nor CH”V to suggest that any immorality is found in appropriate learning of the holy Tanach which is the far worse of the two implications, imho.July 12, 2011 11:31 am at 11:31 am #784781zahavasdadParticipant
I saw the original Spiderman and nothing fell on me.
The stunts were really good. Spiderman flys throught the theater
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