September 17, 2008 1:10 am at 1:10 am #588251abcd1234Participant
just curious why people feel its ok to (indirectly) support a country that attempted to wipe us out…September 17, 2008 2:46 am at 2:46 am #727650
Because it isn’t exactly Nazi Germany anymore. As that generation passes, why hold it against their offspring who had nothing to do with it?September 17, 2008 3:29 am at 3:29 am #727651
im assuming you mean france, england, spain, egypt, and italy.
so no more french wine, english tea or shirts, spanish coats, egyptian cotton bedsheets, and italian clothing.
if you mean germany, well, they are just another of the long list.
here is why you would buy german cars in particular.
german cars use a special alloy in their craftsmanship. it is used for lightness, while being strong. it has in it potassium. the largest reservoir of natural potassium is the dead sea. many people think the reason bmw, mercedes, and audi are big in israel is because of reperations. it has a little to do with it, but not much. the truth is , israel has a deal, importation of the cars at cheap rates, for rights to the potassium. you can see these plants all along the dead sea.
not to mention, they are extremely safe. now if only i could afford one…..
(also, what better way to stick it to the germans, then to take their cars, and drive to shul, shiurim, bikor cholim in them)September 17, 2008 4:35 am at 4:35 am #727652
illini – we hold it against Amalek’s offspring, and I would assume you wouldn’t object.September 17, 2008 6:01 am at 6:01 am #727653namelessMember
Many Xtians have been responsible for persecuting us in the name of their G-d, J, a crime WE never comitted and one that happneed over 2000 years ago!
If they want to continue spilling our blood for SO many generations in revenge for something that happened eons ago, we can refrain from supporting Germany 60 years later!September 17, 2008 8:34 am at 8:34 am #727654
Joseph, I think you would agree that Amalek is a special case, as we are halachically required to do so. If we knew that the Germans were Amalek, it would be different. The Nazis (Y”S) may have been Amalek, but I’m not convinced that this encompassed the entire German people.September 17, 2008 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #727655SJSinNYCMember
My maternal grandparents are from Germany. I’ve been to their hometowns, met people who knew them as kids and saw the house of the german kid who turned in my grandmother’s family for hiding on Kristallnacht, leading to the beating of my grandmother and great grandmother and the imprisonment of my great grandfather.
No, I do not blame the current generation for the sins of their parents, but as long as anyone from the Nazi generation is alive, it really hurts me to support them. Its too fresh.
My family has traced itself back to being kicked out of Spain in 1492 – I buy spanish goods and will hopefully one day travel there. It happened a long time ago, and I cant blame this generation.
Also, I would never in a million years give a dime to the Red Cross. On Kristallnacht, they turned my family away. I dont think I could ever trust them as an organization to help people properly.
September 17, 2008 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #727656yoshiMember
abcd1234 – Nothing I own (I am aware of) is made from Germany, most of it is from Japan, China, U.S.A, and other places I just can’t recall at this time, but if I ever did have the money to buy a mercedes, I think I’d pass.
SJSinNYC – Did your parents have that information for you about your relatives dating back to 1492, or were you able to find out online? I ask because, I can only trace back to my great grandparents at most, and it would be pretty cool to know my ancestry way back in history. I also didn’t know that about the American Red Cross, now I feel bad, because I’m certified in first aid (& others), there. I think when I renew, I’ll go with the American Heart Association.September 17, 2008 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #727657
The International Red Cross were in cahoots with the Nazis in hiding the Concentration Camps conditions.September 17, 2008 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #727658yossiMember
Should African Americans not purchase anything made in america since we enslaved their ancestors? not trying to make a comparison or say we should buy German, but at what point do we not hold the sins of the fathers against the children?September 17, 2008 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #727659
yoshi, under the hood of your car is tons of stuff manufactured in germany. inside your computer are parts manufactured in germany. inside you watch, your oven, dishwahser, and fridge. yes the built item may be made wherever, but the components are from all over the world. it is impossible to get around.
also, you shoudl know there is a major differance between the international red cross, and american red cross. the american red cross should get major support from jews. they did not give their dues to the international red cross for a long time, as it was refusing to allow entry of magen dovid edom! SUPPORT AMERICAN RED CROSS! they need to see our support! because of them, mda in 2006 was admitted to the society.September 17, 2008 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #727660intellegentMember
all my grandparents went through the war, but my maternal grandfather was affected the worst (lost a lot of family, went to aushwitz, etc…). My mother does not buy any German products and I follow suit. The only acception is the Braun and Bosch.
abcd1234, do you feel it is wrong to buy any products whatsoever or just whatever you can find an equal alternative?
My grandfather refused to let his wife buy a braun food processor until his friend told him, you are making your wife work so hard grating all her potatoes etc. by hand rather than buy something from Germany? So on that he gave in.September 17, 2008 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #727661noitallmrParticipant
mariner- have you swallowed an encyclopedia?September 17, 2008 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #727662SJSinNYCMember
Yoshi, one my grandmother’s relatives had traced it back, but it was from family trees that they had. Its cool because it was constantly updated and I was able to see how far and wide my family has travelled. We have family all over the world!
Don’t feel bad about the Red Cross – I dont blame the current administrators, but given how much choice there is of where to donate money, I avoid them.September 17, 2008 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #727663noitallmrParticipant
By the way just on the subject…
Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a.m. While his coffee pot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA).
After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can’t find a good paying job in…..AMERICA…..September 17, 2008 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #727664havesomeseichelMember
If you still write “Germany (Y”S)” then I think that may answer the question….
My family tries not to give Germany money by buying German cars ect. That is a large part of their economy, and that money goes straight to them.
while we are also on the subject of organizations…
Jews should not support PETA, as during WWII they worked hard to save animals harmed by the war, but never bothered to help humans who were stuck on the same railcars that the animals were being stored in….September 17, 2008 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #727665
havesomeseichel: i agree, jews should not support peta, but not for your reason. well, simply, it was founded in 1980, so i doubt anyone was saving animals from a ww2 train! look up your facts before posting. just a suggestion, not an attack. a quick googling would have given you this info. peta is a sick organization regardless, and completely against halacha and torah.September 17, 2008 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #727666oomisParticipant
I do not bedavka look to buy from Germany, but I wouldn’t refrain from doing so if I found something I wanted. They do make a better product in m any cases. If you don’t buy German, neither should you buy ANY product that is international (except Danish, maybe), because there is hardly a country anywhere that has not actively sought to destroy the Jewish people, including Italy (Rome), France, England, Spain, any Third World country, you get the idea. No one LOVES the Jews. That does not mean I cannot enjoy their products. I only will not buy from Arabs or anyone whom I fear is funding terrorism. If Germany is part of that today, I wouldn’t buy from them. But I wouldn’t punish a generation that did not even exist until several generations AFTER the Holocaust, by not doing business with them. Only Ha-Shem should decide to punish subsequent generatiojhs for the sins of the fathers, and HE only does so, if those generations follow in their forebears’ footsteps.September 17, 2008 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #727667
Nazi Germany killed more Jews than at anytime since (at least) Churban Bayis Sheini.September 17, 2008 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #727668bein_hasdorimParticipant
I agree to the original poster, however i’d like to make a distinction
between small products(a knife $3.00)
& larger products(ovens & cars of course)
also some stuff are unavoidable(not knowing)
& some stuff people knowingly buy!!
Especially expensive stuff.
If we can do this when the Holocaust(Hashem Yikoim Domom)
is still fresh in our minds,
I dont know what to think about these people!
Just like there is a chiyuv of Hakoras Hatov
there obviously has to be a Zechiras Hora
Like we have w/ amaleik Y”S (& if i remember correctly)
the Gaon brings that The germans are amaleik!!!September 17, 2008 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #727669havesomeseichelMember
mariner… I was taught that in school.. blame my teachers… maybe there was a precursor to PETA… I normally do not mention facts that I am not 100% positive on. Thank you for correcting me. Did you read the encyclopedia or something?September 17, 2008 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #727670
If you go back and re-read my post, you will see that I wrote “Nazis (Y”S)” and not “Germans (Y”S)”September 17, 2008 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #727671Give Me a BreakMember
I strongly support PETA’s actions, as they are necessary for the redemption of the world – as it says, “The lion will lie with the lamb…” If the lion, who cannot survive on plants, will lie with the lamb, its prey, all the more so (kal vachomer) humans, who can be vegetarian and still be healthy, should not they too not eat meat and torture animals?September 17, 2008 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #727672
GMAB, Refuah Shelamo.September 17, 2008 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #727673
Give Me a Break: youre inference is utter stupidity. there will be a war when moshiach comes, did you forget that? people will kill people, so of course they can kill animals! hey tahts your logic, not mine. besides, how will you bring the karbonos for all the aveiros you dod, and the ones for the shalosh regolim? how do you wear teffillin, have mezuzos, and use sifrei torah. peta is against all of that! also,l tzitizis, as that is made from wool, they are against that as well. bottom line, being a supporter of peta can not in any way be possible as a frum jew. sorry.September 17, 2008 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #727674Give Me a BreakMember
“…there will be a war when moshiach comes, did you forget that? people will kill people, so of course they can kill animals!…”
So you can kill people nowadays, just as you can kill animals nowadays?
A Refuah Sh’leimah to you too.September 18, 2008 10:54 am at 10:54 am #727675intellegentMember
Give Me a Break
Are you Jewish and believe in the Torah??? Do you also believe as all the secular animal rights meshugayim do, that it’s worse to be cruel to an animal than a human? The Germans were very kind to their pets….September 18, 2008 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #727676
Back on topic – I live in Eastern Europe and German products are unavoidable here, so I make a distinction between small day to day purchases like an $2 bottle of a personal care product that I can’t do without and that is made by a German firm, and capital purchases which I define as anything over $75 or anything that someone sees me with every day.
The one time I didn’t – well, I got a nice reminder. Bought a Siemens cellphone before they sold the division to a Chinese firm – it was the worst phone I ever owned – and it met its end when it fell into the throne which the king sits on alone! A fitting end and I realized immediately while it happened.
Bosch is now part of Siemens. Yes, Robert Bosch tried to resist but I do not know whether his heirs still own any part of the company and Siemens was about the worst offender during the Nazi era. Braun is part of Gillette now and hardly has any connection with Germany anymore.September 18, 2008 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #727677
give me a break: so do you sit next to murderers without any protection? because lions lay with lambs.
besides, you never answered the latter of my comment, you know the ones about sifrei stam and karbonos. but i forgot, you think, like peta, that the god of the jews is a cruel god who has no compassion for animals.September 18, 2008 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #727678
A problem in identifying nationality of consumer products today, as you alluded to, is the internationalization of commerce. The parent (owner) company could be based in Switzerland, with the subsidiary in Germany, and the product being manufactured in China, but the majority of shareholders in the United States!September 18, 2008 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #727679
Joseph – yes, but Siemens is Siemens with a majority German shareholder base. Degussa, former and perhaps present manufacturers of Zyklon B (it is still available for use by professional exterminators), are another one to be avoided for the same reason.September 18, 2008 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #727680anon for thisParticipant
Itzik_s, now that Gillette is owned by Proctor & Gamble, a huge American conglomerate (based in Ohio) I’d say its German connection is negligible.September 18, 2008 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #727681
Gillette itself was an American company and never had any connections with Germany. By the time Gillette bought Braun, Germany was far too high cost a labor market and the shavers, food processors, electric kettles and gadgets were being made in the Far East.September 18, 2008 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #727682cherrybimParticipant
Why not take advantage of the Germans Y”S when it’s to our benefit?
I will, however, never go to Germany or Poland for any reason because even 60 years after the Holocaust, I consider their populations murderers and soil drenched in Jewish blood.
Isn’t it amazing that Poland never compensated Yidden for stealing their properties. After the Liberation,in fact, the Poles murdered those Jews who came back to reclaim their homes.September 19, 2008 5:48 am at 5:48 am #727683
its funny, many people will not buy german products, but will travel all over europe to see the churban. do these people realize that they are giving the actual governments of these countries money through taxes. when you buy a ticket to another country, part of the taxes are landing fees.September 19, 2008 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #727684
mariner, there is a benefit to going the the heilige kevurim of the MANY MANY Tzadikim, Rishonim, Achronim and indeed our own Grandparents in the beis hachyims in Europe.
(Btw, I’ve never been to Europe.)September 19, 2008 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #727685
yesm joseph, i can see that. there is also a benefit to driving a mercedes. its alot safer. yet the people tend to make a decision to be a a less safe car because of a company that was taken overby nazis during the war, yet will give the actual government money to go to their country directly.September 21, 2008 9:50 am at 9:50 am #727686GreatAspirationsMember
I’ve tried to avoid buying overtly german products when an alternative is available. Well, Hashem had other plans. I just noticed that a medecine I need to take for stomach issues is made in germany. I have no way out of it and no coice about it, now that BH, Hashem sent a refua through it.
Also, it helps to keep in mind who is REALLY controlling the world and world events. Was it really the germans, or were they shlichim? Though I may not understand why things happen the way they do, Hashem knows exactly what He’s doing. He gives power, takes power and runs the world. I try to keep my trust in Him, alone.January 13, 2011 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #727687popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Well, the topic which was started today was closed, and I don’t think this is the same topic, so I’ll continue where today’s topic left off.
I am a bit freaked out by Germans and people from certain other countries like Ukraine.
I like to travel, but I don’t want to ski the Austrian Alps. I don’t want to tour Ukraine or France. These people can never atone for what they did to us, and I am not completely convinced they intend to.
It kind of gives me a better understanding for how African Americans feel about America sometimes.January 13, 2011 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #727688tobgMember
Who came up with this idea? The punishment for killing our ancestors is lack of business dealings? Just because we cant find any better way to punish them? Is there even a prohibition to buy from Amalik?
Sounds like a goish idea to me.
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