Tagged: Bais yaakov girl
February 5, 2024 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2258784
Hey I’m a young teenage girl in bais yaakov that has been struggling with many areas in yiddishkeit recently. I have also been improving tremendously with the help of many people. One thing that has been bothering me all along and still is, is that the things I was struggling with (mainly boys) were topics that arent discussed in school or basically anywhere in my life. Im definitely not the only girl in my bais yaakov and the other Bais yaakovs all over that struggles with it because it’s normal for it to be a struggle but what makes it harder is that these topics are kept so hushed up and looked upon so badly which personally made it much harder to improve. As I was going thru my struggle I was told that I was going to be sent out my school if I didn’t stop doing what I was doing… and all I could think is “ok I’m doing things against school rules and it’s not right, but why can’t my school teach me in the first place how to control myself or how to deal with these kind of feelings?”
Im wondering if anyone can explain some of this to me so I’m able to understand better why things are like this… thank youFebruary 5, 2024 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2258906kingdavidParticipant
you can reach out to https://guardyoureyes .com/ – they have great resources to help with these strugglesFebruary 5, 2024 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #2258912mechashev1Participant
Although it is possible that it might be a good idea for by schools to address these things in a general way, ultimately this the job and responsibility of parents to discuss with each of their children how to understand/deal with with natural instincts which hashem gave us. If the parents didn’t do their job, then the individual should talk with someone they feel comfortable with and trust who can help them navigate these topicsFebruary 5, 2024 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #2258950
Unfortunately, many of the morahs in Bais Yaakov are not comfortable or lack the maturity to openly discuss such sensitive topics with their students. They feel it is the job of the parents to inculcate the proper Torah values to their children at home, before they ever get to school. I don’t know how close you are with your parents or whether you are comfortable discussing this problem with them. I would suggest reaching out to a younger Chabad Rebetzin. They usually deal with these situations on a regular basis without being judgemental. Even if one is not located near you you can arrange a teleconference via computer and it is free of charge. They are glad to be of help.February 5, 2024 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #2258983☕️coffee addictParticipant
IMO it’s because moros feel it’s the parents responsibility and parents feel it’s the moros responsibility so each side kicks the can to the other and the child suffersFebruary 5, 2024 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #2258984AviraDeArahParticipant
Shlomo, this is predatory. When someone’s suffering, they don’t need to be proselytized to and told that all of their problems will be solved with chabad and the Lubavitcher rebbe. Being exposed to radically different ideologies which might go against her family and chinuch is not helpful. This is shameless missionary work and it’s sickening. Utterly sickening. “Oh those litvishe are so judgemental, just go to chabad where no one judges you and they’re so open minded, they’ll show you “the rebbs” and all of your problems will be solved with tanya and offering prayers to our omniscient savior”February 5, 2024 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #2259000ujmParticipant
I agree this is more on the parents than on the schools. I don’t know why anyone would expect teachers to be more competent than parents in this regard. If it is a struggle for parents who live with their eight children 24 hours (minus school time), seven days a week for at least the first 18 years of their lives, then even more so for educators who each see dozens and dozens of children for only six hours a day, four or five days a week, for a handful of years.
Also, this isn’t a school rule, this is a Hashem rule.
And if you do go to a Rov or Rebbetzin (which is certainly a good idea), much better a much experienced one than a “young” one. (Calling Reb Shlomo; and it surely shouldn’t be limited to a Chabad one.)February 6, 2024 7:51 am at 7:51 am #2259017commonsaychelParticipant
Call the Troller Reebe he is an expert in these mattersFebruary 6, 2024 7:52 am at 7:52 am #2259015ywnjudyParticipant
BY girl, i hope you take to heart the following: I know someone whose environment and dates were kanai to quite a degree, even though I doubt the latter realized it about themselves. Eventually an extreme choice was made, with the result that many people are now suffering. Don’t ask further questions, as i’m not at liberty to elaborate.February 6, 2024 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2259092
Commonsaychel, your posts calling out every thread as troll are getting tiresome, and more importantly, in the cases you’re wrong (and there’s no way for you to know how many times you’ve been wrong) it’s likely very hurtful.February 6, 2024 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2259093
Wtsp: I’m glad you’re getting the help you need from those helping you.
You should not blame the schools, these types of issues are not discussed publicly by design. Now that you’re struggling, it may be hard for you to understand, but hopefully in a few years you’ll understand that dealing with it publicly would cause more harm than benefit.February 6, 2024 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2259153keithParticipant
First of all I’m sorry to hear you are suffering in your struggle.
I am BT so some things are easier for me and some things harder. Obviously we all know this in our heads but sometimes we forget in our hearts. H-Shem loves each of us more than we can possibly know. He knows the challenges we face. Every single one of us makes mistakes and H-Shem loves us so much before the mistake and just as much after the mistake. You are loved more than you possibly can know and He knows the temptation and struggle he makes in you and understands all of your mistakes and my mistakes and everyone’s mistakes.
The recommendation to speak with a chabad rabbi/Rebbetzin is probably bec they deal with people with questions routinely. I mean they go out in the community and people who are struggling or thinking that they are the only ones with such and touch problems come to them. They are generally very sympathetic and understanding. Your community might be the same but some are more and some or less. I find that chabad is universally, thoughtful, understanding, and loving and nonjudgmental. If you have a good relationship with your parents, they would probably be the first ones to speak with but it’s possible they might not have so much experience also in which case and experienced Rabbi or Rebbetzin might be better. Personally, I found that Chabad has just been really easy to talk to.February 6, 2024 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2259172MenoParticipant
I thought only old people post on the coffee roomFebruary 6, 2024 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #2259248
Keith is correct. The reason that I suggested a Chabad Rebitzen is that they deal with such problems on a daily basis, especially those who serve on college campuses. In such a case they do not try to indoctrinate with Chabad theology. They just want to help a fellow Jew who is struggling. An the reason I suggested a younger one is that this young lady would be more willing to trust somebody who is closer to her own age rather than an older one who in her mind might not understand her feelings. The mere fact that this young lady has chosen to go on social media with her problem to complete strangers rather than parents or members of her own community underlies the gravity of the situation. She obviously does not trust them and is crying out for help. She is looking to do the right thing Torah wise and not go off the derech. It is incumbent upon us as fellow yiden to help her. I live in Florida and can suggest several Rebitzens that she could talk to.February 6, 2024 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #2259275☕️coffee addictParticipant
We’ll see if commonsaychel is right or wrong if the op follows up, so far she hasntFebruary 6, 2024 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #2259282ujmParticipant
Shlomo: You think that boys and girls violating the halachos regarding the interaction between males and females are mainly transpiring by college age men and women? It’s happening just as much by those in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. A 20-something Chabad “rebbetzin” on campus will not be half as adequate as an experienced Rov or Rebbetzin in their 50s and 60s.
And this isn’t a chabad specialty either. If you’re looking for an okay-man who will assuge you that your aveiros aren’t so bad and everyone else is doing it anyways, so don’t fret over it too much, you can get someone even less judgemental by seeking out a conservative or reform rabbi.February 6, 2024 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #2259371
@kingdavid I’ve reached out to them a long time ago but didn’t help…
@daasyochid I appreciate your response a lot ty
One thing tho yes I am struggling and that makes it harder for me to understand why these things aren’t discussed publicly, but why can’t there always be a place that’s open for a teenager to discuss things that aren’t normally discussed openly?
All along I felt like I had to look for my own help else I would get worse, and get in trouble… there is a point where certain things should be brought up. It doesn’t have to be publicly but it should be brought up in an open enough way that if a girl or boy is struggling they feel comfortable getting help and guidance. Or otherwise they don’t feel comfortable searching for that help and get worse… (and obviously here I’m talking about teenagers that want to improve)
why don’t I deserve to be helped from my school and not only threatened? I understand this is a topic that’s more sensitive but to say it can’t be discussed completely in a school setting makes it so much harder for girls like me to feel understood and that our school is there to help us…February 6, 2024 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #2259372
UJM, Your comparisons are not valid. A Reform or Conservative clergyman (I hate to use the word “Rabbi) does not believe that the Torah was given by Hashem and was man made. That is not even Judaism but total Apikorsos.
We all know what the Torah says on the issue confronting this young lady. It is a clear and indisputable Halacha.
The issue is how to explain it to this young girl in a way that she will accept it. Both, the Chabad Rebitzen and the older more experienced one are going to be delivering the same message. The question is are you going to do it like Hillel or like Shamai. Will a “frask in punim” and calling her a shiktza be more effective in convincing her to comply or a non judgemental friendly explanation with a smile on your face accomplish the same goal? I argue that a heavy handed approach might drive her off the derech entirely but a more gentle approach will save a Jewish neshama. Nobody is looking for a lenient psak which is out of the question.February 6, 2024 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #2259373
Also to all of you arguing pointlessly about how chabad is the best I’m honestly embarrassed of you (I’m not lubavitch … but ty)February 7, 2024 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2259437CSParticipant
I heard a farbrengen given to girls your age. I can’t sum the whole thing here because no one likes king posts and it takes much time to write up.
Main points: our natural instincts are good and wonderful, and need to be guided to the appropriate place. Let’s say a girl is going to fast for her first time: she might start panicking, feeling she won’t survive the fast. Instead of ignoring and fighting her feelings, she can realize that yes, if she doesn’t eat for three days, she could die, but the fast is not 3 days so she’ll be ok. Working with your feelings instead of fighting them. And putting them in perspective.
In this case, it’sa wonderful attraction Hashem created to the other gender. It helps us marry and build loving stable homes. But there’sa time and place for it. And it needs to be the right person too.
Any of our natural instincts are powerful and therefore can be hard to fight. Hashem gave them to us as a gift and we need to use the brains Hashem gave us to make sure the gift is being used the way it’s meant to be, because otherwise it can be destructive.February 7, 2024 9:54 am at 9:54 am #2259293
Coffee addict, not a raya one way or another.February 7, 2024 9:54 am at 9:54 am #2259307GadolhadorahParticipant
“If you’re looking for an okay-man who will assuge you that your aveiros aren’t so bad and everyone else is doing it anyways, so don’t fret over it too much, you can get someone even less judgemental by seeking out a conservative or reform rabbi”
Or alternatively, you can share your concerns with R’ Yosef, or any of our other CR experts on womens’ issues who are know for their progressive views.
On a serious note, the OP sounds like she is mature well beyond a typical “young teen” and has an extraordinary sense of self-awareness lacking in much older bnos yisroel. Wherever you turn for advice and guidance, remember that ultimately you have to be comfortable in your own skin and don’t let others intimidate you into conforming with some abstract “norm”.February 7, 2024 9:54 am at 9:54 am #2259496ipchamistabraParticipant
I’ve been reading your question and responses (and sniggering at many of the responses – which you ably dismissed).
Your question as to why schools don’t/won’t give instruction in the area you are asking about has been correctly responded to, but I would add another more compelling reason: they are simply not qualified to do so. These questions require halachic decisions, and schools are not geared for that. Yes, they can give students a general idea of Laws of Shabbes, tefillah etc, but should never arrogate the position of Posek, most definitely not in such a sensitive area, where the Talmud rules that only one-to one instruction is permitted.
Parents are fine, if you have a sufficiently close and trusting relationship, but few teens would turn to their parents once the problems have escalated to the stage you imply. Not only today, but it was the same when I was your age 60-odd years ago. And probably well before that as well.
Thus questions such as yours must be addressed to such a posek. I don’t mean a Maran-Posek-haDor sort of Posek, but a competent and respected Rov. However, since such a Rov would not sit down and discuss these matters with a woman (and if he offers to, run a mile), the (centuries-old) procedure is that women approach his wife, and she conveys the question to him, and returns with the answer – and in your case will probably sit down and discuss at length with you your questions.
If, for any reason, you don’t feel comfortable with the rabbinical choice you’ve made – eg you might feel they are too judgemental, unsupporting, or whatever – there is no reason why you can’t try elsewhere. Simply not liking the answer is not sufficient reason. But you do have a right to guidance and support, and they have an obligation to deliver that to the best of their ability.
Your present indecision will pass – gam zeh yaavor. I wish you success in your quest, and may you only grow and mature through this test, and – when the time comes – found a beautiful Jewish home of your own.February 7, 2024 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #2259616philosopherParticipant
Frum schools these days place too much emphasis on learning irrelevant secular subjects and learning is basically memorization instead of actually teaching important subject to internalize the message. However, it is important to remember that we all have bechira and no amount not of proper chinuch can make a person do the right thing because it’s a choice. No one can blame their personal choices on parents or educators or education.February 7, 2024 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #2259713
Hashem will never give you a nisayon that he does not think you can pass.February 7, 2024 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #2259716get it straightParticipant
guess what. you are normal. that’s the first thing that has to be understood. but really there are a few points here:
1) the point I already made is that as a teenager this is normal for girls and boys to feel there’s a reason why it was made like this is so that people will get married eventually, if this strong feeling wouldn’t exist nobody would ever get married because of the headache involved and the sacrifices and commitment of a family.
2) even though you are normal, many schools are struggling with the fact that the teachers cannot relate to the students. you will have cases where a student has simple questions on hashkofa, or a students has hormones and is attracted to the opposite gender like in your case, and the teacher or school lacks the experience to answer these good questions and tells the student that they are a rasha or bad kid, and they want to kick them out of the school. this leads to a big problem where people think that we do things in judaism without reasoning just because its what frum people do. however we live in a society and generation where blind faith will fail. things need to be explained, because the world out there is getting very enticing and if people don’t feel acknowledged and answered and we just do things because that’s what we do for no real reason, that will make our religion look like amish people and can cause many people to go off the right path.
3) another issue is that based on the last 2 points we live in a society right now in judaism in the circles that you are talking about especially where if a person thinks out of the box and sincerely asks questions they will be looked at as an outsider/ rasha. did you ever wonder why for example there’s very little cases of OTD by sefardim, the reason is because by them you are accepted and your questions are answered even if we don’t have the answers all the time but the questions are validated and not frowned on, its because they are much more accepting and not pushing away. by the yeshivish and chasidish circles there are many pros but one big con is that if you ask a question get ready to be an outcast. but rabbi miller’s mehalech was not blind faith at all in fact I heard him say clearly that he was against it. people need to know reasons for why we do things its very important.
now for your case either switch schools to a more open minded yeshivish bias Yaakov ( its not a contradiction) usually in NY you can find that, or just ignore what they say to you in your own school until you graduate and go to a more normal seminary where they address your concerns. don’t talk to boys until you start dating. but there’s nothing really wrong about asking questions. our whole torah is about asking questions and challenging. that our entire religion. the whole gemara is questions and answers and proofs. so whoever says its wrong to ask is just weird.February 8, 2024 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #2259936
@gadolhadorah and @CS – tyvm
@get it straight – yeh I agree that my school sorta makes it uncomfortable for girls to ask sincere and valid questions but they’re getting better at it because my friends and I are starting to ask things more straight out and honestly (obviously respectfully also)
@ipchamistabra – ty also but I was specifically talking about practical guidance and a listening ear from my school , not Halacha. but yes it’s true that for Halacha a rav is neededFebruary 9, 2024 8:22 am at 8:22 am #2259985SACT5Participant
“I was told that I was going to be sent out my school if I didn’t stop doing what I was doing… and all I could think is “ok I’m doing things against school rules and it’s not right, but why can’t my school teach me in the first place how to control myself or how to deal with these kind of feelings?”
My sense is the purpose of the schools rules is to teach students how to live in a way that would help you to control your actions. It’s not a formal class but it’s giving you the tools to follow to help control yourself.
As for feelings, it’s not easy.
“Who is strong? One who overpowers his inclinations.”
Best to you. Remember being a teen doesn’t last forever even if it may feel that way.February 9, 2024 8:32 am at 8:32 am #2259990CSParticipant
Maybe you can ask those in the school you feel comfortable with to do what we had in high school: The school arranged an after school farbrengen (program/ whatever you want to call it), with a qualified person who can address the struggle (we had someone who had been struggling in this area and had gone modern and then woke up at her engagement when she saw her chosson to be hanging out with her friends who had come to say Mazal Tov. She made a u turn and took a new path fire herself after that), either someone who can personally relate or who doesn’t feel threatened by open honest questions and can address them. The event would be after school and optional, for whoever feels they would benefit from attending.February 9, 2024 9:30 am at 9:30 am #2260022jdf007Participant
Person starts a thread asking a question or advice.
Multiple replies about 2 close parties which I guess is not working.
Someone posts about a 3rd party, saying speak to them because they answer these questions frequently. But they’re in a certain group.
Thread devolves into tired and old conspiracy theories, because the person was from group a, but not group’s b through z. Did the people warning us get indoctrinated themselves? Were they saved from being indoctrinated by the group? No. Let it go.February 10, 2024 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #2260221truthsayerParticipant
One piece of advice that is very important: beware of false friends. There is a woman in Flatbush who is known to prey on vulnerable teenagers and older singles. Goes by the name Removed pending confirmation. She pretends to be very caring and concerned but has ended up getting many people in need of care hooked on drugs and then eventually buying drugs for her. She seems very put together and successful but that is part of how she gets people. Stick to getting advice from known reputable people.February 11, 2024 9:32 am at 9:32 am #2260243Ellie7Participant
I think you are right that there isn’t a lot of resources and people to speak to if there is a frum girl struggling with this–it is still an issue that is being swept under the rug. I would advise you to consider a creative outlet that could give you a chance to shine among your peers and to give yourself time to connect to your feelings, like by listening to music. Connect to the loneliness of not having someone to talk to who can guide you and understand you, while empowering yourself by getting good at a certain skill, like painting, creative writing, singing, dancing, graphic design…this will help you to feel seen despite the loneliness, and connect to how it is such a big need for you and validate that.February 12, 2024 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2260641yacr85Participant
Can I start by saying, if you are struggling, you are alive. Life is a constant battle. I know you want you nisyonos to be in other areas, we all wish they were, but that’s not how life works.
Hashem has given you, and many others, these challenges and tests for you to work on these areas. Hashem likes us to be super strong when it comes to our relationships. Same as when going to the gym. If you decide to work on your biceps, then the biceps is an area which will hurt. You will have to push yourself harder than you can imagine, you will have to work out on days that you don’t want to, or days when you aren’t feeling well enough, you will suffer injuries, pulled muscles and more. But if the goal is to end up with big muscles, then that’s the way it is. Same with your yetzer harah. If it is to get stronger, it has to be pushed up to and past it’s limit. And it has to be done hundreds and thousands of times. There’s no other way to grow in a certain area other than be bombarded with tests over and over again.
As far as the feeling of challenges, I’m with you on that one. Sometimes it can feel overwhelming and that you just don’t have the tools to fight the battle. I’m with you on that. There’s no ignoring it. God put us in this world and said, I want you to improve dozens of things. You may only actually succeed in one or two areas, but the pressure has to be there. It’s rough out there. The challenges are many and from all angles.
May Hashem help you through the challenging times.
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