Camps in Catskills
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- This topic has 34 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by mattisyahu.
April 14, 2020 12:22 am at 12:22 am #1849416
Does anyone know anything about camps remaining open this summer in terms of the state allowing it? Will they only cancel right before if there is no change in the virus? Any chance it can stay open?April 14, 2020 2:16 am at 2:16 am #1849461eirlichParticipant
I’m wondering…April 14, 2020 8:52 am at 8:52 am #1849492
Too early to know.April 14, 2020 9:36 am at 9:36 am #1849498
Several camps have already said they will be closed this summer but most are deferring any final decision until the next 2 weeks when the federal and state governments issues their new guidelines on social distancing and group activities. Even if they do reopen, some parents are likely to keep their kids at home this summer in an abundance of caution. The good news is that the incidence of infection is very low for younger kids and they generally seem to bounce back quickly. However, as any parent knows, it is very difficult to impose public health guidelines when they are under constant supervision, much less when they are with the chevrah in camp.April 14, 2020 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #1849557yehudayonaParticipant
GHD, although it’s clear that children who get the virus seem to be the least seriously affected, I have no idea where you got the idea that their incidence of infection is low. Could you point to a reliable source for this claim?April 16, 2020 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1849838YaapchikParticipant
While it is still way too early to know for certain, it is likely children AND PARENTS will need the camps to be in service this year more than ever! The stress levels will likely be reaching boiling point by then. Hopefully this will all be long forgotten by then and life can continue to function. Hashem yerachemApril 16, 2020 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #1849845
Dr. Birx at one of the early WH Task Force briefings before yom tov had observed that the few data streams they had so far from other countries showed younger children seemed to have the lowest infection rate of the various age groups although subsequent data here in the U.S. indicated that even children can become seriously ill and die from CV. She has stressed that NONE of these anecdotal studies are definitive. At this point, we have tested less than 1 percent of the U.S. population and most of those were symptomatic individuals in the upper age brackets.April 17, 2020 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1849869FrumroshyeshivaParticipant
It’s funny and sickening that what we worry about are the camps in catskills amidst the mageifa. THE YESHIVAS ARE STILL CLOSED R”L?! We need to find a mehalech somehow to avoid and circumvent the government regulations to have our precious chadarim running. That in my humble opinion should be klal yisraels biggest concern. Let’s not get sidetracked with mundane stuff like summer camps and other ways for us parents to relax with our children out of the way.
Kol Tuv.April 17, 2020 2:11 am at 2:11 am #1849913
Frumroshyeshiva, (if you even are one) you are what we normal people like to call a FOOL. Yes there is tragedy all around us and we should not only be focused on ‘mundane summer camps’, but let me ask you. Would you want your kids at home heating all the horrible news or enjoying themselves and rejuvenating for a productive year in 5781!??? I mean I don’t know about you but my kids have been home for 5 weeks already and let me tell you, it’s NO vacation for anyone. Kids need a break too. They need to go to camp. Why should they be stuck at home? Considering that it is safe enough
To go. Obviously if it’s still a danger then then we can figure out how to get ready for next year. Maybe the schools will give a mini Summer vacation in October if this lasts thru the summer R’’L. But for right now, you’re A FOOL for saying that kids should continue with routine and enjoy their childhoods.April 17, 2020 2:18 am at 2:18 am #1849919LongbeachParticipant
Does anyone know if Camp Morris will be opening?April 17, 2020 8:05 am at 8:05 am #1849940
***Fool for saying kids SHOULDNT continue with routines…April 17, 2020 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1849973
Frumroshr\yeshiva: Did you actually write these words and expect to be taken seriously “We need to find a mehalech somehow to avoid and circumvent the government regulations to” when most poskim are telling us not to do this for minyanim, levayos and chasunahs?April 17, 2020 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1849974
to the OP: not a question if they can “stay open” but will they allowed to open? or will stay at home restrictions still be in effect?April 18, 2020 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1850140
Sad that even after the most conservative gadolim and askanim have finally internalized the critical need for everyone to rigorously comply with the distancing and other guidelines, there still are some mindless yidden whining about the kids being home and looking for ways to circumvent the rules. What do these folks have between their ears??April 19, 2020 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1850288
Iacisrmma: yes, that’s what my question meant. And gadolhadorah, that makes no sense. OBVIOUSLY if the condition is still serious in June-August then I would never want the camps to open. But hoping that it can open so that klal yisroel can have a summer and be able to function next year is not a crime! Kids are not robots. They need camp. Wether it’s sleep away if they can affford it, or day camp, or family trips. I was just wondering if it’s a possibility that this can happen considering most frum New Yorkers have already been hit (as I’ve been told- before someone screams at me for false statistics) yes I am worrying about the kids enjoying themselves because I love them. I’m sorry for being mindless.April 19, 2020 1:01 am at 1:01 am #1850301
YadleYad: Note that in EY, they will begin allowing OUTSIDE minyanim this week for up to 10 daveners with masks distanced as necessary. I’m not sure how you will get younger kids in a camp setting to follow such guidelines inside and out of their bunks within 60 days from now absent some breakthrough in vaccinations and testing. I’m sure there will be some parents willing to take some risk this summer just to get the kids out of the house, assuming the public health authorities upstate are willing. I’m wondering, however, how anxious Sullivan County will tradeoff the perceived health risks with the economic benefits that flow from yidden from NYC and their kids arriving in two months. Presumably, any relaxation of social distancing limits will be done on a statewide basis with some regional variations so not clear the towns and counties will individually have much control.April 19, 2020 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1850320
GH – how long exactly are you thinking people are gonna stay holed up in their houses? 60 more days makes sense to you? I would be surprised if they pull off another 15April 19, 2020 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #1850471MammeleParticipant
Sleep-away camp is riskier than most jobs that are now “banned”. Even if the economy opens up, it may still not be allowed this summer. Unless immunity testing works out, and many kids turn out to be immune.
Syag: I agree. Many people have literally not stepped out of the house for over a month. (Yes, they’re allowed to go for walks, but won’t for whatever reason.) And for those above 60 with health issues living in apartment buildings/condos, it’s hard to argue that it’s perfectly safe for them to leave, even with mask and gloves.
The problem is that to fight off the virus, good circulation is vital. Most of these people are not getting even a fraction of their regular exercise at home. And even their prior walks for daily activities weren’t enough for them to stay healthy.
I have no magic answer, but we need to be aware of the downside and that we are literally creating a huge pool of physically “barely mobile” people with all its health ramifications. And I’m just discussing heart health now, the mental health aspects are not to be ignored either.April 19, 2020 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1850531CTLAWYERParticipant
Even if a camp managed to open getting campers and staff and their belongings there would be both a logistical nightmare and super expensive.
No yellow school buses loaded with 42 kids and a driver. One child every other row on each side of the bus means 10 or 11 kids per bus. No families loading the SUV or minivan with 8 kids and driving upstate. Who will disinfect the campers, clothing, bedding, supplies upon entry to camp.
This may be harsh, but the required inspection, separation, segregation and sanitizing would be reminiscent of a different type of cam Jews went to in the last century.
I would not trust my grandchildren to be subject to the inspections of overworked health department employees in the little towns of the Catskills.April 19, 2020 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1850605Beast of a dudeParticipant
which camp?April 19, 2020 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #1850717
“Many people have literally not stepped out of the house for over a month. (Yes, they’re allowed to go for walks, but won’t for whatever reason.)”
It doesn’t have to be a matter of extremes. I’m not sure what you mean that some individuals won’t go outside (with a mask and keeping away from crowds) for “whatever reason”? Obviously, they have to shop periodically, unless home food delivery is a lot more widespread and efficient in the NYC area than I’ve heard. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. A gradual transition to getting out makes sense. Hiding out in your apartment for months and than suddenly waking up one morning and hearing an “all clear” siren ain’t gonna happen. We are fortunate to live in an area where we can get out daily for an hour or so to walk/bike w/o having to deal with crowds but even in the more densely populated areas of the City there are still options if you care. For those very few with issues of depression etc., it might be a bigger challenge to get motivated. However, my reaction to the original topic of this thread dealing with summer camps is still the same. Unlikely to happen for most who are fairly risk averse given where we are now regarding infection rates, rapid testing capability, treatment protocols and what the experts are predicting. for these measures over the next several months.April 19, 2020 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #1850729
BH in chicago there are organizations doing people’s shopping so many here are able to stay inside. I know several with health risks who won’t leave the house, are afraid to. My assymptomatic kids were stuck in the house for weeks because each time another family member got sick they had to reset the quarentine clock. For most of the population, it’s just not realistic to think this can go on another month. And the kids who are the lowest risk physically, and the highest risk emotionally and socially need to get out. If not sleep away then day camp, but they need out.April 19, 2020 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1850737JosephParticipant
Syag, if one kid completed a 14 day quarantine due to his own symptoms, he’s required to do another 14 day quarantine if another family member then gets symptoms?April 19, 2020 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1850763
No, it was the ones who did not have symptoms who had to quarentine everytime they were exposed to someone who was sick. The ones who got sick had to wait at least 7 days from onset until they were 3 days done.April 20, 2020 12:03 am at 12:03 am #1850771JosephParticipant
So the sick ones didn’t have to quarantine a second time once done even if another member of the family later developed symptoms?April 20, 2020 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1850790
No they did not.April 26, 2020 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #1853384
The CDC plans to issue guidelines within the next week or 10 days regarding summer camp reopening and “best practices” for the Summer 2020 season. While these guidelines will not be mandatory, it is likely that many states including NY, NJ, Connecticut and Pennsylvania will adopt them and perhaps impose even more stringent requirements. Apparently, these guidelines will acknowledge that strict social distancing is impossible in a camp setting but may include many of the items discussed earlier in this thread and include some of the following.
*All campers and staff will have to be tested and show negative results within a short period of arrival
*Start-up dates for camps may be pushed back by several weeks, especially in Southern states where the school-year ends earlier
*The numbers of campers will have to be reduced over ordinary years to allow for some greater degree of social distancing
* The number of campers per bunk will be reduced and bunks reconfigured to maximize distancing
*Meal service and other activities involving large gatherings (minyanim??) will have to be staggered to reduce numbers and allow for more spacing
*cleaning staff will have to be increased substantially will new focus on “wiping down” common surfaces used in group activities
*increased on-site nursing staff to monitor campers and staff health, ability perform immediate testing where any symptoms are suspected
*limits on any offsite activities for campers
*no visiting days for parents and limited on/off property trips for counselors and staff once they arrive
*actions plans for immediate responses in case any campers/staff test positive for virus
Not clear how each state will implement these standards, or in the case of NY/NJ, whether Cuomo and Murphy will even decide to allow camps to reopen under ANY guidelines. If they do, there will be higher costs per camper as a result of fixed costs spread over fewer campers and higher costs to conform to the guidelines.
Good news is that children and teens continue to show lower infection rates and when they contract the virus, fewer complications and quicker recovery. However, most frum camps also have older staff who are at much greater risk so special care will still be needed to protect older rebbeim etc.April 30, 2020 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1855280
Good news…possibly…See article on news page today that Sullivan county is beginning to plan for summer camp openings this summer. They don’t specify what the new public health/virus guidelines will be or how they will be enforced but this is still a good sign. Key decision is obviously an announcement by Cuomo in the next week or two that upstate summer camps will be allowed to reopen if they meet certain conditions. I suspect lots of parents who have been dealing with kids at home non-stop since mid-March will be looking forward to some time off.May 4, 2020 11:25 am at 11:25 am #1856712hujuParticipant
The relevant question is not whether camps are open. The relevant question is whether the medical and public health experts consider them safe.May 4, 2020 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1856737commonsaychelParticipant
Huju we have 3 relevant questions, what the law is, if they don’t get legal clearance its a moot point.
2, can they get enough staff in time? open question
3. Will the children come if they are open? unknown
I know these are the questions they are dealing with because by brother in law runs one of the biggest camps in the catskillsMay 10, 2020 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #1859207mazal77Participant
Good luck, the locals are complaining to the townships, that the camps should not be re-opened. Social media sites airing the camp issue, are full of anti-semtic comments. “They” are dirty, “they” don’t vaccinate their children. “They” are diseased. “They” think their are above the law. You know, the usual stuff that we yidden get.May 10, 2020 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #1859226
That may be true, hopefully not, but on the other hand, the camp association of the Catskills wrote a very detailed letter to the township asking the governor for permission to open. It included guidelines like testing before camp begins, no visiting day or trips, and no inter camps. They wrote that it is much safer for camps to be open on full lockdown then to have thousands of teenagers roaming the Catskills. Because bungalow colonies legally must remain open, because they are private homes. Hopefully the government will comply, considering how unharmful it is to children, plus the slope that’s already way down. Well just have to see!May 10, 2020 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1859269anonymous JewParticipant
Mazal77, unfortunately that attitude of the locals is a result of past , highly publicized misbehaviour of some yidden.May 12, 2020 10:42 am at 10:42 am #1859875
With over 100 young children now having been identified as possibly suffering from this new CV-19 related syndrome that may lag 4-6 weeks after initial exposure/infection to the virus, the public health officials now have an additional complication in their decision about the safety and risk of opening summer camps. Parents too will be concerned about the ability of current monitoring/testing/diagnostic protocols to assure that asymptomatic carriers are not inadvertently allowed to come into contact with their kids.
There is no easy answer here and whatever decision Cuomo and the state health authorities make, there will be an immediate and loud pushback.May 12, 2020 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #1859914mattisyahuParticipant
Also issues in Wuhan just now where long lasting COVID-19 led to additional cases. The situation is a lot more complicated than many people want to acknowledge.
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